svt-cl vs. mesa 400+

Splatterthrash · #1 05-23-2010, 01:11 PM

Investing in one or the other sometime (whenever I can find a 400 if it is as good as I hear) want to know if anyone has advice.

RickenBoogie · #2 05-23-2010, 01:50 PM

Very different sounding heads. A/B them if at all possible. SVT is grindy, tubey, warm and loud, while the Mesa is much cleaner, almost solid state sounding, (but not), punchy, bright and loud.

Sten · #3 05-23-2010, 02:14 PM

What style of music are you making? For my style I would choose the Mesa any day, but many people swear by SVT sound for their music.

JimmyM · #4 05-23-2010, 02:17 PM

nothing wrong with either. svt looks cooler. except for the svt 2 pro. rackmount...blecch.

BassMonstrum · #5 05-23-2010, 02:23 PM

The Mesa is out of production, am I right?

Hollywars · #6 05-23-2010, 02:43 PM

The SVT is the classic rock sound. I believe the 400+ has a relatively mid scooped sound, and definitely a more modern sounds. Look up some artists that use both, and compare their sounds. For instance, The Dillinger Escape Plan's bassist uses an SVT-VR, and the bassist from Tool uses a 400+ or did, but he also uses many effects.

JimmyM · #7 05-23-2010, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassMonstrum

The Mesa is out of production, am I right?

yeah but still pretty easily available used.

mikeldtl · #8 05-23-2010, 03:00 PM

Honestly between the two I'd take the 400+, no question, all day long. I recently retubed an SVT-CL for a friend and played it for a few to put it through the paces. Not impressed to say the least. The preamp volume/gain control was almost worthless and the best sounds I got came from master wide open and using the pre to nudge up the overall volume. It was my least favorite head between my 400+, SVT II, and the 300T that resides in our practice room. I have been using the 400+ for many years now and just bought an SVT II a few weeks ago that I have been using that for my 'SVT fix'. The CL has it's own vibe but I don't feel that it truly represents the SVT sound (not the old school one) and certainly sounds a fair bit different that my II. The II just has MORE of everything and the 400+ I feel cuts better and is arguably more flexible than either. I would look to GK or old Sunn stuff for the money of the CL. But the 400+ has been a pleasure to play all these years and I would certainly recommend it. The cost of retube is roughly the same between the two and the Mesa just screams quality where as the CL I played was a Vietnamese design that seemed a little.... overpriced? (Don't wanna say cheap). Sure looked nice though. I also have seen the CL fail in a live setting more than any other head due to the built in protection circuitry and if I was a cross-country touring bass player I'd have to either chuck it out a window or get the circuit bypassed to offer some peace of mind. Just things to think about. Keep in mind that you will have to add in the price of a rack case for the 400+ as theres 16 tubes to protect inside and a shockmount is preferred. Anyways all of the above is IMO and YMMV. Sure there are others that will dissent but for me the choice is clear. Happy head hunting my brother ~

NecroticImbecil · #9 05-23-2010, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollywars

The SVT is the classic rock sound. I believe the 400+ has a relatively mid scooped sound, and definitely a more modern sounds. Look up some artists that use both, and compare their sounds. For instance, The Dillinger Escape Plan's bassist uses an SVT-VR, and the bassist from Tool uses a 400+ or did, but he also uses many effects.

The 400+ gets called "mid scooped" here because its mid control is essentially cut-only. If you listen to one, you'll hear plenty of mids, even with the mid knob down low. Its sound is pretty "colored" compared to a modern solid state amp, though maybe not as much as an Ampeg.

chiplexic · #10 05-23-2010, 08:57 PM

What about the Mesa 400 (before the +).
Is there anything I should be concerned with regarding the (non +) 400? Or is it actually more prefered and sought after than the 400+ ?

johnk_10 · #11 05-23-2010, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeldtl

Honestly between the two I'd take the 400+, no question, all day long.

to each his own, but my take between the Ampeg and the Mesa is completely the opposite. i never played thru a 400+ that i cared for (and i have spent alot of time with 5 different ones). they've always sounded, and felt a bit too solid state to me. BTW, IME, there's no mistaking a 2000S for a SS amp.

Jefenator · #12 05-23-2010, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiplexic

What about the Mesa 400 (before the +).
Is there anything I should be concerned with regarding the (non +) 400? Or is it actually more prefered and sought after than the 400+ ?

Nothing wrong at all with the 400 (non-plus), IME!

I haven't compared it directly with a +. Some who have prefer the non. Half as many power tubes but they run them hotter.

FWIW I've never thought of my 400 as sounding like solid-state. I once slaved it to a SS preamp and the power section tubed things up very nicely.

If I had to choose between my Mesa 400 and my newly-acquired vintage Ampeg, I have to say it would be a real tough call. (Lot of good that does for the OP.

)

My Ampeg is much bulkier and heavier (and it's not even an SVT - it's just the 100-watt V-4). But, for me, with all the knobs at 12 o'clock, it has THE sound. For fingers, pick, even slap. I'm listening to a gig recording I just made with it and the bass is making sweet hot love to the mix like never before.

The Mesa can certainly deliver the goods, too, though. Takes a bit more work to get a sound for me, but I've had some incredible tone nights with that thing. I'd say not as mid-heavy but pull the knobs out and you can get a generous helping of the audible stuff.

Tim1 · #13 05-23-2010, 10:27 PM

Over the past 20 years I have travelled from an SVT2 to a Mesa 400+ to an SVT VR. It took going to the Mesa to convince me that I should never have sold the SVT in the first place. With the 400+ I was always fiddling with the tone controls, swapping tubes, using an A/B/Y cord in an effort to get the tone I wanted in my head - and to be fair it did come sort of close in the end. With the SVT VR I simply plug in, play and drool......

ledyard · #14 05-23-2010, 10:40 PM

I have owned a USA CL. I play through a 69 SVT weekly at one bands rehearsal. I use my SVT II at my other bands rehearsals. For anything old school I would opt for an older SVT. Or a used USA CL if funds didnt permit and old one.
I like the SVT II better than any of them. The SVT II pro would be another great option. I agree the II pro has an ugly paint scheme.

JimmyM · #15 05-23-2010, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ledyard

I have owned a USA CL. I play through a 69 SVT weekly at one bands rehearsal. I use my SVT II at my other bands rehearsals. For anything old school I would opt for an older SVT. Or a used USA CL if funds didnt permit and old one.
I like the SVT II better than any of them. The SVT II pro would be another great option. I agree the II pro has an ugly paint scheme.

lol...well i feel the same about all rackmount and micro amps. they're all ugly. so i'm not just singling out the 2 pro.

anyway, i, too, prefer the svt (of course). but if you find yourself in the fortunate position of being able to afford a tube amp, mesa's also a great way to go, albeit in a different tonal realm than the svt.

anderbass · #16 05-24-2010, 04:41 PM

I've owned/gigged a 400+ and a couple older SVT's for several years now and have came to this conclusion: There's always exceptions... but I feel that If your more of a busy/flashy player, there's a good chance you might just end up preferring the 400+. If your more of a pocket/groove player, you should give an SVT a shot.

I currently prefer my SVT's, but after checking the info in your profile, I'm thinking a 400+ might just be a better choice for you.

Splatterthrash · #17 05-24-2010, 07:53 PM

Hmm, thanks for the input, everyone. I play thrash metal, and a 2 band eq 4 string Stingray. I currently use a usa ampeg 810 (not flat back, sadly) and a usa svt-3 pro head that I just can't solve the distortion problem on at higher volume (notes just bleed together and sound like farts) I want to go all-tube, but also considering the peavey vb-2. I have played the CL and I like it, but I do not have the money nor patience to hunt down a vintage svt head. The Mesa sounds good, and I have heard nothing but good things about it, but, as Jimmy has said, I am not a huge fan of rack mount heads, though I will have no problem with what it looks like it if it sounds right.