Switching to a new 300 watt tube amp need advice!

[D.M.N.]

Originally Posted by Bassmec

Ports can work with tubes but not always...

Agreed. I had a rear ported Ampeg 1x15, and you really had to watch the lows on the amp otherwise it would just be all sorts of flub. On the other hand, my favorite cabinet is the Sunn 200s/2000s cab, with the front porting (I think it's technically porting? Sunn literature called it a rear loaded horn, but I know it isn't that).

[Sartori]

Originally Posted by dukeisdog

Aguilar DB751?

I haven't played one but it's just another option. Supposed to be an awesome high end all tube amp.

Might be worth checking into.

The DB751 is a hybrid, I thought.

[Sartori]

Originally Posted by D.M.N.

Agreed. I had a rear ported Ampeg 1x15, and you really had to watch the lows on the amp otherwise it would just be all sorts of flub. On the other hand, my favorite cabinet is the Sunn 200s/2000s cab, with the front porting (I think it's technically porting? Sunn literature called it a rear loaded horn, but I know it isn't that).

+1

Some ported cabs work amazingly with tube amps, like the 2000S cab (and, of course, the smaller 200S cab). Others might be voiced in a way that doesn't work well with many tube amps. It really depends on how the cab is designed.

[Sartori]

Originally Posted by LukeMan970

I have the amp set at mid-10 bass-3 and treble-3 but pulled with the graphic eq bumping at 250hz and 625hz so I don't necessarily think it's the eq. I know it needs a retube pretty soon I just haven't had the cash to go through with it yet I've been thinking for a while that this cab is a bit muddy and VERY boomy so I have considered changing that out to a new fEARful dually but haven't decided if I want to switch to a new amp or a new cab first

If you want to get rid of boom and mud, try cutting 40hz and 100hz on the graphic, depending on what room you're playing in.

To see if it's the cab, see if you can try the head with some different cabs, and whether it still sounds muddy. Several different cabs would be best for this experiment, in case the first one you try is a very similar design to the 410HE you have.

I've heard some very good things about the Dually, as well.

[tabooze24]

...another option is the 300 watt Peavey VB3.

its super light at 37 pounds and has a foot switchable overdrive channel, compressor, and graphic eq.

Also, there are some retailers selling them brand new on the bay for $1,375, which is a killer price considering Guitar Center has it for $1,799. But, you can always get 15% off at Guitar Center is seems.

just a thought!!!

[LukeMan970]

Originally Posted by Gabeja15

i posted about this in the hot deals section

apparently Verellen is having a sale and you can pick up a new 300 watt meatsmoke for like 1800

I live pretty close to the Verellan shop!!! I've been interested in these amps for a little while but this might get me to go check these out a little harder.

I'm wondering what people think about switching over to a hybrid amp like the Aguilar DB750/751? If it's a really punchy amp then it would sound great with say my B3k for overdrive growl and then still have a smooth punchy sound when running clean. Are they a much more hi-fi sound than say my 400+ because I consider that a pretty modern sound as far as tube amps go.

[rpsands]

Peavey VB-3 is the only tube amp I would consider purchasing new right now.

[LukeMan970]

Also if tube amps aren't necessarily good matches with ported cabs would the Dually be a bad choice if I were to keep the Mesa?

[rpsands]

Dude, just forget that crap. If it sounds good it is good.

There is the possibility to get some odd behavior and exaggerated lows, but that's:
1) Far more likely to happen with older cabs which tended to be tuned a lot higher (~55-75hz in older bass cabs a lot of times)

2) Easily fixable by plugging half the ports or using an FDeck preamp to scalp some of your ultra-lows

My experience with my 1515/66 and Trace Hexavalve is that it sounds fine without either port plugging or Fdeck, but sounds best with the Fdeck at 35-40hz.

[Bassmec]

Originally Posted by LukeMan970

Also if tube amps aren't necessarily good matches with ported cabs would the Dually be a bad choice if I were to keep the Mesa?

I don't think the Fearful would be the most efficient design for the 400+
But it would sound good, I would be looking for a very nice efficient mid forward 2 x 15 like the Mesa diesel with a pair of EV 15L's or an old sunn cab with JBL K140's
If you can get the fixed variable bias mod sorted out for the 400+
You can then sort out a decent set of well biased EL34's or better still 6CA7 tubes your Mesa will be killer sounding amp.
We had one modded like this from a back line hire company for a year and it was great, loads of mid punch and clarity.

[LukeMan970]

Originally Posted by rpsands

Dude, just forget that crap. If it sounds good it is good.

There is the possibility to get some odd behavior and exaggerated lows, but that's:
1) Far more likely to happen with older cabs which tended to be tuned a lot higher (~55-75hz in older bass cabs a lot of times)

2) Easily fixable by plugging half the ports or using an FDeck preamp to scalp some of your ultra-lows

My experience with my 1515/66 and Trace Hexavalve is that it sounds fine without either port plugging or Fdeck, but sounds best with the Fdeck at 35-40hz.

Very true, well I think I might just put some more money into this thing and retube the whole amp. I guess I'm just hesitant because I just had this thing at a tech for month or so because it stopped working and that cost me $300 there and now to get new tubes and have a tech look at it again (it has an aftermarket bias control on it) I'll be out another $400 at least and be without an amp for another month maybe

[rpsands]

Originally Posted by Bassmec

I don't think the Fearful would be the most efficient design for the 400+
But it would sound good, I would be looking for a very nice efficient mid forward 2 x 15 like the Mesa diesel with a pair of EV 15L's or an old sunn cab with JBL K140's
If you can get the fixed variable bias mod sorted out for the 400+
You can then sort out a decent set of well biased EL34's or better still 6CA7 tubes your Mesa will be killer sounding amp.
We had one modded like this from a back line hire company for a year and it was great, loads of mid punch and clarity.

The Dually is an incredibly loud cabinet. Incredibly loud. It will go fantastically with a tube head. Guaranteed.

[Bassmec]

Originally Posted by LukeMan970

Very true, well I think I might just put some more money into this thing and retube the whole amp. I guess I'm just hesitant because I just had this thing at a tech for month or so because it stopped working and that cost me $300 there and now to get new tubes and have a tech look at it again (it has an aftermarket bias control on it) I'll be out another $400 at least and be without an amp for another month maybe

Then all you need is a pair of bias probes and a multimeter and you can set it up and find weak or failing tubes your self, saving you all the time effort and money of getting it set up properly elsewhere only for one tube out of twelve drifting slightly out of the bias and then problems again, you can just replace the offending tube yourself ensuring good bias throughout is the trick to the amp. Get 12 good stable matched output tubes and you are sorted as long as your speaker cable and impedance matching are also good.

[Sartori]

Originally Posted by LukeMan970

Also if tube amps aren't necessarily good matches with ported cabs would the Dually be a bad choice if I were to keep the Mesa?

The dually is a ported cab that would be a good choice for a cab to use with a tube amp.

This "you have to have sealed cabs for the t00bz" nonsense is getting very annoying. Many, many ported cabs work very well with tube amps. Some tube amps even came with ported cabs.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Sartori

The dually is a ported cab that would be a good choice for a cab to use with a tube amp.

This "you have to have sealed cabs for the t00bz" nonsense is getting very annoying. Many, many ported cabs work very well with tube amps. Some tube amps even came with ported cabs.

I agree. Silliness. A good amp + a good cab = awesome, no matter if the amp has tubes and the cab has a port or not.

[rpsands]

Owning a Mesa 400+ without adjustable bias is asking for being cleaned out If you intend to keep it, get the adjustable bias mod done so you can at least only buy matched sextets.

[LukeMan970]

I'm starting to think real hard about the Aguilar DB 750/751. With a B3k and a supercollider this amp get all the dirtier I would want and still keep the solid low end and punch that I've heard with these cabs. Does anyone have any experience using the Aguilar with distortion or fuzz pedals? I started this thread loving all tube amps but the more I look at the DB751 the more it sounds like a fantastic choice.

[sunbeast]

FWIW- retubing the Mesa 400+ shouldn't cost much if anything more than retubing any of the 6550-based 300 watt tube amps. A decent 6L6 can be found for around half the price of a similar quality 6550, so 12 6L6s= 6 6550s pricewise. As others have said here- the problem is either the cab or your amp is not working as it should. My 400+ was easily the most articulate tube amp I've ever played! I have used a couple different 410HLFs though and never liked them. A bassist friend of mine used a Mesa Bass 400 into one and I honestly never dug his tone. His amp sounded fantastic through my sealed 6x10 cab though (we did a 400 vs. 400+ shootout!). He eventually traded out his cab for an Ampeg 810e and his band definitely benefited from that change.

[xfredrikx]

Verellen Meatsmoke, no question about it.

[MetroBass]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

I agree. Silliness. A good amp + a good cab = awesome, no matter if the amp has tubes and the cab has a port or not.

True! My SVT-CL through my Uber212 is awsomeness. Granted I had to go through 3 different cabs because the 410s just weren't cutting it for me. I play mostly blues so I like a little muddiness but when I want punch it's there. The Mesa 400+ is a killer amp and with your cabs, it appears to be an EQing problem, not your RIG.

I'd bite the bullet one more time get a good set of tubes and a good tech if you can't do it yourself. All of us tube amp snobs have gone through the sticker shock of a new set of tubes, but it's well worth it. If its your XFMR then, that's another story.

You may want to get that checked out first because replacing the XFMR and tubes may be more costly than a new/used 400+ on the street.

To make matters worse you can probably find a decent CL on the market right now for under $1000. But there again you may run into tube replacement expenses.

I probably keep the 400+ and fix it, but that's just me. I was an ET in the Navy and can troubleshoot and fix most of this stuff myself. Ohmmeter's your friend!