SWR Goliath III - Bypassing the horn?

carl-anton · #1 07-30-2010, 03:37 AM

I am not sure how the horn/tweeter of the Goliath III cabs really works, hence the question. I want to let the whole frequency range from my amp go directly to the speakers including the high frequencies that otherwise goes through the horn. As I understand it there's a splitter (or whatever it's called) that sends the high freqs to the horn and if I turn the attenuator all the way down the high frequencies are lost. Is that correct? Or is it actually a kind of cross-over design that let's the high frequencies go through the speakers if I turn down the horn? (it doesn't sound that way)

If the first is the case, how to I bypass the horn then?

Thanks

Plays_For_Dog · #2 07-30-2010, 04:51 AM

I love SWR cabs. Like you, not a fan of the horn. I have mine on zero too. Subs sound amazing though

chadds · #3 07-30-2010, 06:13 AM

Used them for years IIs and IIIs. The horn attenuators just barely on provides full range.
You want to use a fuzz pedal? If not the tweet adds a nice air.

carl-anton · #4 07-30-2010, 09:17 AM

Thanks for the comments.
I do use a fuzz (Big Muff) and I do have the horn just a few notches on. Liked the sound but now I want something more subtle. Just wanted to be sure that turning the horn completely off doesn't mean I lose the high end frequencies. To me it sounds that way but that might be because I'm used to the horn being on.

Jim Carr · #5 07-30-2010, 11:19 AM

If you just want the tweeter off, use the attenuator or remove the fuse bulb--which I am certain you know.

Getting more upper band audio to the 410s may be hard. Most cross-overs share a common frequency band at the "meeting point" of the two drivers audio regions. I am fairly certain that band is not somehow widened by the attenuator.

There is no doubt a standard workable way to rewire the 410s into a nominal 8 or 4 ohm load. However, IMHO, you are better off trying to find an EQ setting that solves the problem.

guroove · #6 07-30-2010, 11:21 AM

The frequencies being sent to the horn are so high that you really don't want them going to your paper drivers. I used to just turn the thing off completely, and didn't notice and abnormal loss of highs.

anderbass · #7 07-30-2010, 12:10 PM

SWR may have changed the Goliath-III from my old Gol.-II model, but my crossover literally burst into flames at a gig one night after about a decade of attenuating my tweeter all the way off.

To completely bypass my G-II crossover all I had to do was swap around a couple of the wires that plugged into the L-pads circuit board. This was several years ago but I remember once I unscrewed the L-pad and had it hanging out the back It was pretty obvious how to simply plug the 4x10 speakers directly into terminals running to the input jacks and then completely unplug the crossover. (but again your G-III might be completely different)

If you run into any difficulties, post some pics of the L-pad/wiring and we'll help you out.

Tim1 · #8 07-30-2010, 02:49 PM

It is a while since I have been into the back of one of these, but IIRC the tens receive the full range of the signal regardless, the crossover simply stops the horn form recieving the bass signal below a certain frequency to protect it, plus it has an attenuator for its volume. I used SWRs for many years and always just had the horn on the barest tad, which I believe avoided any risk of burnout.

Bigjohn · #9 07-30-2010, 05:16 PM

This is true.
The 10's receive the full range signal.
The crossover only removes the lows/mids for the horn.
I know this because I traced the connections/traces inside my Goliath III cabs when I had them open once.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim1

It is a while since I have been into the back of one of these, but IIRC the tens receive the full range of the signal regardless, the crossover simply stops the horn form recieving the bass signal below a certain frequency to protect it, plus it has an attenuator for its volume. I used SWRs for many years and always just had the horn on the barest tad, which I believe avoided any risk of burnout.

carl-anton · #10 07-31-2010, 05:11 AM

Thanks guys. I'll try to unscrew the L-pad and see if it's so simple that I can figure it out myself. I'll keep you posted, though it might take a weeks time due to vacation.

carl-anton · #11 07-31-2010, 05:17 AM

Sorry, didn't see the last to posts (tried to edit my post but kept getting an error message).

Think I'll wait messing with the wires until I either get an answer from SWR (mailed them days ago) or the local tech SWR tech guy gets home from vacation.

Bigjohn · #12 07-31-2010, 10:19 AM

Turning the horn all the way down (OFF) using the attenuator is exactly the same as if you removed the crossover and horn and rewired you cab for speakers only.
In a stock Goliath III, the speakers get the full range of frequencies no matter the horn setting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by carl-anton

I am not sure how the horn/tweeter of the Goliath III cabs really works, hence the question. I want to let the whole frequency range from my amp go directly to the speakers including the high frequencies that otherwise goes through the horn. As I understand it there's a splitter (or whatever it's called) that sends the high freqs to the horn and if I turn the attenuator all the way down the high frequencies are lost. Is that correct? Or is it actually a kind of cross-over design that let's the high frequencies go through the speakers if I turn down the horn? (it doesn't sound that way)

If the first is the case, how to I bypass the horn then?

Thanks

will33 · #13 07-31-2010, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim1

It is a while since I have been into the back of one of these, but IIRC the tens receive the full range of the signal regardless, the crossover simply stops the horn form recieving the bass signal below a certain frequency to protect it, plus it has an attenuator for its volume. I used SWRs for many years and always just had the horn on the barest tad, which I believe avoided any risk of burnout.

^This^

The 10's are already recieving the full signal and the horn just has a highpass filter to keep the lows away from it. You can remove the whole works and just have the 10's wired up to a jack. Disconnect the tweeter but leave it screwed in place just to plug the hole. Leaving it's mounting hole open will screw up the tuning of the cabinet.

carl-anton · #14 08-01-2010, 05:33 AM

Ok, thanks so much guys - I'll just turn the attenuator all the way off then and enjoy the sound

...nice that it was the easy sollution for once

lbwdog · #15 08-01-2010, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carl-anton

Ok, thanks so much guys - I'll just turn the attenuator all the way off then and enjoy the sound

...nice that it was the easy sollution for once

I'm not so sure. I am holding a Goliath III crossover in my hands and it looks like a full crossover. Turning the L pad off may generate excessive heat, resulting in damage.

CALL SWR tech support. They have always provided good answers to any of my questions.

carl-anton · #16 08-01-2010, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbwdog

I'm not so sure. I am holding a Goliath III crossover in my hands and it looks like a full crossover. Turning the L pad off may generate excessive heat, resulting in damage.

CALL SWR tech support. They have always provided good answers to any of my questions.

Sorry, I'm kind of slow. So what you are saying is that I can't just turn the attenuator off by rotating the dial to the left, because it will possibly create heat?

I'll call tech support in Denmark when vacation time is over (end of August). I'll post back.

will33 · #17 08-01-2010, 09:52 AM

The attenuator will absorb the power that was going to the tweeter, burning it off as heat. At lower volumes, probably a non-issue, turn it up for a gig and you may want to leave it on a little bit just so the l-pad doesn't have to absorb 100% of the power.

It's possible it could be a true crossover but I haven't seen any typical 410's + tweet like that. The 10's are usually losing a good bit of response by the time the tweet picks up anyway. If it doubt, you can leave the circuit card/attenuator and all that out of the circuit and just wire the 10's up to a jack.

Bigjohn · #18 08-01-2010, 04:18 PM

You guys are making this complicated when it is not.
1. The drivers get the full signal.
You can remove the crossover and the horn, plug the holes and rewire the cabinet and get exactly the same effect as turning the horn off on the back of the cab.
2. Turning the horn off will result in absolutely no damage even at high volume.
The Goliath III would be a very bad product if you HAD to have the horn on to avoid damage. The Goliath III is a very quality product.
I own a Goliath III (I used to own two) and played around 150 high volume gigs with the horns off. No damage. Those cabs work as well as the day they were bought.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbwdog

I'm not so sure. I am holding a Goliath III crossover in my hands and it looks like a full crossover. Turning the L pad off may generate excessive heat, resulting in damage.

CALL SWR tech support. They have always provided good answers to any of my questions.

Gizmot · #19 08-01-2010, 04:25 PM

If the cabinet has a crossover, the signal going to the horn and the 10s are being attenuated at the crossover region. If you don't want to use the horn, disconnect the crossover and wire the input signal directly to the 10s, bypassing the crossover. Bypassing the crossover will give you a full-range signal into the 10s and won't waste the amplifier power used in the crossover.
I predict it will sound better, play louder and have better transients without the crossover.

MikeM · #20 08-01-2010, 04:45 PM

The Goliath cab from Eden was the same way. The 10s get full range all the time, the crossover is only connected to the horn.