SWR Thiele/Small parameters

[J42]

I just bought a used generic 2x10 cab that is loaded with SWR Workingman's Professional Loudspeakers (P/N: 130024)

I can't find the Thiele/Small parameters at the SWR website. I have emailed SWR and am waiting for a response, but figured I might as well see if anyone here can help me out.

[JimmyM]

companies don't usually give out t/s parameters for their speakers. if you get an answer, i'll be surprised.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

if you get an answer, i'll be surprised.

I'll happily go to the grave knowing that I truly have seen everything.

[BillyB_from_LZ]

Are the speakers made by Eminence? Check for a little silver label that has a date code in the form of 067-YYWW where the YY are the last two digits of the year and WW are the number of the week.

If they are made by Eminence, look for the Spec No which for 10s will start with "10" (clever huh?). If you can find that, send an email message to info@eminence.com and ask for the Thiele-Small parameters for "Spec. No. 10xxx" (the total number of digits vary).

If you can't find the little label on the side of the magnet, look inside the frame as I've seen them hidden there for OEM speakers.

If it's a current production speaker, it's likely that Eminence won't be able to help you, but if it's out of production, it's been my experience that they will.

Otherwise, you can measure/calculate Fs, Vas and Qts with a few pieces of electronic test equipment and a wooden box of known volume.

[Gizmot]

Making ports longer, bigger or plugging them up sounds like a lot of work to save a few bucks. I agree with Jimmy - companies usually want their "secret sauce" to stay secret. Good luck getting it right!

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Good luck.

I tried that with Hartke (Eminence), no cigar.

They replied within 12 hours IIRC, so it wasn't because their CS would suck. The /cough/ F /cough/ "may" not be as good though .

OEM is called OEM for a reason.

Regards
Sam

[greenboy]

Bass cab companies have traditionally felt that they would be giving away their secret formula were they to divulge their drivers' T-S parameters. Or conversely, their lack of anything special, because a lot of the OEM drivers are so close to the stock ones it's often just the matter of a dust cap.

Nowdays at least, there is so little edge to be had with a OEM formula. The stock drivers are pretty much the best 8 ohm drivers the companies could come up with for the needs they envisioned. But there are those 4-ohm and 16-ohm requests, and that's extra business, and the occasional special needs that profiling at the driver company hasn't covered.

Gotta say, Ampeg in the Saint Louis days was great to me. I've requested a lot of OEM driver specs over time, and they were among the few who came through nicely. In fact, I got test data, graphs, all kinds of stuff once they got an idea I was a power user and not someone bent on copying Ampeg boxes commercially. That crew over there ruled!

[J42]

Thanks for all of your responses.

BillyB- I found the label inside the the basket. I sent an email, and am hoping for a response with the T/S parameters, as the speaker was made in '96.

Once I get this cabinet tuned I can get back to saving money by sprucing up some more Wishbasses. ; )

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by Gizmot

companies usually want their "secret sauce" to stay secret.

Usually so you won't know that said sauce is mostly water.

Bass cab companies have traditionally felt that they would be giving away their secret formula were they to divulge their drivers' T-S parameters

Not quite. First, most larger companies don't have T/S data. The cabs are loaded with drivers specified by part number only from their supplier. Second, most don't want specs revealed so that the consumer can't easily figure out how the cabs actually stack up to their advertised claims. That usually means the drivers aren't at all special. That's in stark contrast to someone like Duke, who wants the customer to be aware of the high quality components he uses. If someone really wants to reverse-engineer a cab they can measure the driver specs in 30 seconds or less. But the main reason for not revealing specs is so the consumer must buy replacements from them, and not a less expensive alternative source.

[greenboy]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

Second, most don't want specs revealed so that the consumer can't easily figure out how the cabs actually stack up to their advertised claims. That usually means the drivers aren't at all special.

Originally Posted by greenboy

Or conversely, their lack of anything special

* * *

That's in stark contrast to someone like Duke, who wants the customer to be aware of the high quality components he uses.

Yep.

If someone really wants to reverse-engineer a cab they can measure the driver specs in 30 seconds or less.

I'm hoping the companies that build bass cabs could actually figure that out. But jeez, sometimes, the evidence almost supports the monkeys in the R&D dept theory, and more in the marketing department with better skills ; }

But the main reason for not revealing specs is so the consumer must buy replacements from them, and not a less expensive alternative source.

Yep. Some pretty outrageous prices usually, for non-descript drivers.

[J42]

Thanks for the info BillyB.

I got a response in exactly 8 minutes.

Thiele/Small Parameters for Eminence Spec. No. 10810:

05-RE OHMS 4.16
06-LE MH .59
07-QM 3.35
08-QE .380
09-QT .340
10-XMAX MM 3.50
11-BL TM 10.89
12-EFF % 1.87
13-FS HZ 55.26
14-MMS GMS 31.40
15-CMS mm/N .2641
16-RMS NS/M 3.2585
17-VAS LTRS 44.12
18-SD SCM 344.88
19-EBP 144.4
20-SPL dB 94.7


I am going to start a new thread with questions about tuning.

[Oldtimer]

Originally Posted by J42

Thanks for all of your responses.

BillyB- I found the label inside the the basket. I sent an email, and am hoping for a response with the T/S parameters, as the speaker was made in '96.

Once I get this cabinet tuned I can get back to saving money by sprucing up some more Wishbasses. ; )

I thought PAS was making SWR speakers back in '96! Maybe not for the Workingman series though. If they were PAS, I don't think that info is available at all.

[JimmyM]

good on eminence!