T/S parameters for vintage CTS 8x10 drivers?

[5StringPocket]

I have the CTS neo drivers and all the hardware for my .5-aligned sealed 610. I have 3.6 lbs of Acoustistuff from Parts Express for stuffing the box which comes out to .75 lbs/cu-ft. I think this should work well but if it doesn't seem like enough I can add a 2" thick square of foam (which I've used in my other builds) on the back surface. I got some pet screen from Speaker Hardware to subdivide the two vertical chambers which should help keep the stuffing in place. Wraparound braces and double-sided carpet tape should make it pretty easy to mount. All the wood is cut but I'm still waiting on my Weber 10FL drivers which were ordered 10/27. This is delaying final assembly because I need to make the cutout holes before mounting the baffle. I e-mailed Weber since they don't answer their phone and asked for the cutout hole diameter for the speaker (lowered into the hole so the rear gasket meets the front of the baffle). I got 8.75" as the diameter but every other 10" driver I've seen needs between 9.0" to 9.2". Any info regarding overall diameter, bolt circle diameter, and rear-mount cutout diameter would be appreciated. You'd think a simple list of driver specs on a website wouldn't be too much to ask... Since the Weber 10FL are great in the mids but shy in the bass I'm wondering if using my 4th CTS neo in the lower full range position and two Weber 10FL in the mid and upper full range positions wouldn't be preferable to a 3/3 split? The reason this matters is that if the two drivers use different size mounting holes it looks like I'll have to commit one way or another.

[kringle77]

They use the same size mounting holes. I would go 4 neo's, 2 webers. Im assuming that you went with 8ohm webers? My weber 10fh drivers (2 of them) are finally arriving tomorow as well as 8 eminence b810's. I didn't plan on getting 8 but, I get one heck of a deal and didn't want to pass it up. I tried two weber 10fl drivers in my cab now that I've stuffed the chambers with wool. The wool really tamed the low mid hump and gave the sound more bottom. The cab may be overstuffed now but, I'll have to experiment. FWI, I really like the sound of a weber 10fl highpassed at 500hz to add more mids and highs to the cab. I have no regrets having this cab built because I can experiment and tweak all I want without actually cutting holes in anything.

[5StringPocket]

4 neo's and 2 webers it is then for that bit of extra bass response. All drivers are 32 ohm. If I was building an 810 or the 610 was not .5 aligned I would have used 8 ohm drivers, but with a 610 where 3 drivers are low-passed the wiring and impedance match works out better with 32 ohm drivers.

[kringle77]

The webers are just alittle more sensative so, 4&2 is a good bet. Be sure to try the cab fullrange as well as .5 Im glad that I have the switch. The weber 10fh's are arriving today for sure but the B810's are up in the air. I HATE it when people use usps to ship gear. It was coming from colorado to ny and was sent like 8 days ago and only arrived in PA this morning. I probably won't see them until monday or tuesday now. I've noticed that gear sits at the sort facilities alittle longer with usps. And their tracking just plain sucks. I am expecting big things with the 10fh's but am also hoping to get the low end of the b810s reigned in with the right stuffing. Either way, I've got the best drivers to experiment with. The mcm Part #: 55-2981 is the only other one I'd like to try.

[kringle77]

Finally got the pair weber 10fh drivers. They certainly are twice as heavy as the 10fl's. I think that their rating of 98db to the 10fl's 95db is alittle off. Maybe. The 10fh has MUCH more midrange, the entire midrange. It reminds me more of the berg nv610 drivers. If I had to run a cab with only one or the other, I'd go with the 10fh because it really is a monster driver. Alittle less top end that sounds like the difference between two different size voice coil, more mids, the bottom goes alittle lower and flatter. It has sort of that eden xl woofer sound or maybe a mesa boogie 10" (though I haven't heard one in awhile so....)

The B810's were shipped via usps, low priority so, apparently they've been bumped back a day at each check point along the way. They were shipped 9 days ago from Utah, I'll probably have them on friday or have to wait until next monday. Im not real happy about that as, I planned to do all my experimenting over the long holiday weekend.

In retrospect, I probably should have held onto the neo's a bit longer. The wool stuffing really brought the sound together for me. I think that so far, the neo cts clone has been the overall best, in that if I could only use one driver, that would be the one. So, if I can't get the low end dialed in on the B810's, I may just go with 8 neo's and have an 88lb 8x10 cab. Luckily I can get those in 2-3 days. This saga will have an end sometime in the next 2-3 weeks I think.

Oh, after alot of expermenting, I definitely prefer overstuffed to understuffed. There is a fine line where it sounds the best but, Im not weighing the wool to figure it out and when you are dealing with 8 drivers, things are going to change a bit. There definitely is more focus with the wool. The mattress foam is very good, the wool is better for sealed. No matter how much you use.

[5StringPocket]

Looking forward to trying the CTS neo/Weber 10FL combination. I'll definitely have a switch for the low pass. Weber takes a while to deliver the goods - getting impatient. I hope the 10FL has good mid presence in the 600-900 hz band where the CTS is scooped. Does the 10FH add that low end heft the FL was lacking?

[kringle77]

Have you actually tried the neo's at all? They sound really good. Bright and clear with a nice tight but just enough bottom. I really wish that I had 8 of them to try. It's really all about the combination and the sound does change as you add more drivers. Thats the part that is hard for someone like me to plan around.

[5StringPocket]

No, I don't have a test cab. Just curious. I'm just going to build the 610, load it and play. With your exhaustive testing and everything else I've seen I'm sure it will rock with the Streamliner.

[kringle77]

I bought the B810's on the 13th, they went out from Utah on the 14th. Still haven't arrived. No wonder USPS is in such trouble. Not happy here.

[BlueLine1]

Did LDS do the crossover? Specs? Would you run verticle fl's on one side and verticle fh's on the other without one? Thanks,
Alan

[BlueLine1]

Sorry, had to go back to post # 164. Thanks again.........

[kringle77]

Yeah, I would run them fullrange. I just used a plain old eminence 500hz low-pass, which is what Ralf Patterson suggested. Still experimenting with what drivers I will end up with, or at least waiting to. .5 to .75 lbs of wool per driver seemed to be about right. That .25lb of variation actually makes a difference but, Im not weighing a bunch of loose wool to get it perfect. Too messy.

[BlueLine1]

Is that an Eminence PXB:500? 12db/Octave and 600 Watts? Do you like it? Did you add the wool to the stuffing that was already in the cab? Sorry to hear about the B810's, you could have driven to Utah and back by now........
Alan

[kringle77]

Yeah, thats the one, although I do have the 2-way version that I could use in case I wanted to do one driver hi-passed at 500hz, which could happen. I took the foam out and replaced it with wool, with fiberglass screen door material stapled over top to keep it in place. That worked well but was tough to work with. That was done on two chambers. The other two I stapled some of the foam over the wool. Did about the same thing, just doesn't look at neat. Sounds pretty much the same. If I did it over, I'd probably use cotton cloth because of ease of use. The chambers each sound basically the same with slight variations due to the amount of wool in each. I found it tough to get even amounts. The wool comes in a box that it just stuff full, you can't un-roll it like other fabrics. It really is superior to other materials for sealed cabs though. With foam, the first layer makes a huge difference, after that you can almost fill the cab with only alittle change. With the wool, you notice a difference with every handful. It attenuate all frequencies where as the foam stops reflections but not all frequencies. This project gets more complex with every variable I tweek. I am almost, almost done experimenting as Im getting alittle worn out from the variables.

[kringle77]

For my friend in Germany, here is a comparison of the B810 to the celestion Bl10 in the same cab. The celestion doesn't look too good in a sealed cab. B810 is blue, Bl10 is yellow

[JimmyM]

Gotta have that little hump at 100 hz That's what makes it sound badass!

[kringle77]

Finally got the B810's today. Ran a bunch of experiments and really, my overall favorite was 6 B810's and 2 mod10-50's. The weber 10fl's were blended in with some B810's and they gave a really nice attitude to the sound as well, it just took alittle eqin'g to get it right. I didn't play around with the 10fh's, which are great and sound most like the berg drivers but, they are 10lbs each so, Im not realistically going to load 8 into a cab. At the end of this, I would say that the Neo cts clone would be my favorite overall, if I was only going with a single driver. Every one I have tried each has it's own thing it does better than the others. I think that Im going to order 8 neo's and have a good sounding cab at a very light weight, for an 8x10. If anyone wants to buy some drivers, I have some for sale.

[BlueLine1]

What did you like about the B810's over the 10FH's, other than the weight? What about punch and response time? Did you low-pass the B10's? Thanks,
Alan

[Bmorefoozler]

Man, some people around here are going to get some great deals on lightly used 10" drivers suitable in sealed cabs...


You sure are crazy in your quest for tone... (in a good way of course).

[prengel_basser]

Thanks chris!
looks like the Celestion is not the greatest driver for an 8x10...
but good to know!