T/S parameters for vintage CTS 8x10 drivers?

[kringle77]

Here is the CTS vs the B810. Notice the 2.75db bump at 125hz on the B810 and the extra low end. This is what makes it sound boomy to me.

[Buzz Grim]

Yup, that's a big bump on the Legend B810. I don't think I would want that. Thanks for the good info Kringle. Not exactly on topic but I picked up an Eminence 3015 (non LF) based on JohnK_ 10's opinion that his 2x15 DIY cab sounds SVTish I'm trying to decide on the right box to build for it to get the F3 70-80hz with slight bump tonal profile.

[kringle77]

I have a similar cab to his. Really good drivers. As an experiment, I put some foam blocks inside the cab to make the inside volume smaller and it had the effect of reducing lows and boosting the low mid. With the 3015 in a ported cab, to get that 8x10 kind of profile, the cab would have to be very small. Like, just big enough for the speaker to fit in and then be creative with port placement small. By reducing cab volume I got a similar sound but, you still dont' get quite the same feel as a sealed cab. I blocked the ports of the cab as well but not while I had the foam blocks in. What it comes down to is, if you want a big sealed cab sound, you need a big sealed cab with lots of 10's. Don't let anyone tell you different. What you will find is that you have spent thousands of dollars to come to the same conclusion. Thats what I did.

[astack]

Another great thread dude.

One thing I'm not clear about when you're comparing the low end of drivers, is I believe you're doing so with equal box sizes/Vb (ie CTS and Berg modeled with x cf). IRL, you could have Don build any size box to taylor the low end for a given driver. I know you can't make an exact match, but playing with the volume variable, you could get your profile with many different speakers (provided their TS parameters are in the ballpark, which your short list already takes into account).

That make sense?

[kringle77]

You would think so but, working with just sealed boxes, the drivers native properties really dictate where any bumps or rolloffs are even with vastly different sized boxes. Model the B810 against the CTS and you'll see what I mean. I've definitely looked into this.

[astack]

OK, cool. Just curious if that could help you out.

Thinking again about it, I think I remember in some cases to see a large difference you need to go to absurd volumes like 10cf per driver.

Another thought: Have you jumped on the HPF-Pre (or micro-thumpinator) bandwagon? Could be another piece to your low-end-tailoring puzzle.

[kringle77]

Funny you should mention that. Yes, I've got the 2nd version of it as well as a dbx driverack that I can do all kinds of filtering with. I just popped a pair of faital pro 10fe200 drivers in a sealed cab. I high passed them at 80hz and it definitely got the sound closer. The faitals have a very clean, clear sound without any real breakup when run fullrange and are alittle brighter than the cts. The cts is darker but has some mid growl. Too bad that I don't have a B810 to try high passed right now. That could probably get very close. Oh, well.

[kringle77]

SOB! Now that I've already placed an order for 8 webers I remembered that I have the specs for the neo version of the B810 that fliptops had made special for them by eminence. When I modeled it, it lays exactly on top of the cts driver. I can only assume, at the very least, it sound like the B810 but with the CTS's tight punchy bottom. At the best it is a neo CTS. It's still 4.5lbs like the weber but, weber doesn't have the specs so, I may have made a mistake by buying them.

[kringle77]

neo svt

[kringle77]

Here's the SVT Neo specs from fliptops

[davelowell2]

So, you think the Neo SVT from Fliptops is the closest to the CTS? Now I'm torn between the Neo SVT and the B810's. I would assume the Neo SVT has better power handling? Help!

[kringle77]

As far a low end profile goes, the neo is exactly the same and according to the frequency response diagram, it has the same mids and highs as the B810 so, it's at least as good as the B810 but punchier. I'd go with the neo. Then, you can let me know what it sounds like! Honestly, I would have bought these instead of the Webers' but, I already placed my order. These are cheaper than the webers and you could have them in a few days where as the webers take a minimum of 3 weeks to get and cost more. They weigh the same and are both rated at 150 watts. In all reality, they are probably very similar. But, it the webers have a bigger low end, I'll probably sell them and order some of the neo's. I don't know how many of the neo's fliptops has but, Im sure that they were a limited order.

[beans-on-toast]

It might be worth asking Weber if you can cancel your order. With a three week latency, they may not have taken any action at their end. Even if there were a small penalty, you might be able to get it as a credit against future purchases.

The advantage of the Weber is that they will stand behind their product and fix it down the road. With a custom Eminence neo from fliptops they may not be able to offer support down the road.

[kringle77]

I'll stick with the webers. I don't think that there is a huge risk with the neo's but, it's true that they may be a very small run.

[kringle77]

Well, I had to know so, I put in an order for four of the fliptops neo's. I'll have them this week and in another 2 weeks i'll have the webers and I'll let them fight it out. I have a feeling that they will be very similar. I'll probably go with the ones I like the best and sell the others.

[JGR]

What cabs are you putting them in? Do you still have the LDS crossfire or the Ampeg 810?

[kringle77]

I've got a few small 1x10 sealed cabs and a sealed 2x10 at home but, if they sound good, I may put 3 of them into the nv610. Im still running the NV low passed at 500hz 2nd order on one side by the way.

[JimmyM]

Awesome chartage, bro! What is this SVT Neo you speak of? Just went to Fliptops and couldn't find it, nor did a Google search turn up anything. And your Eminence spec sheet is way too small to zoom in on and read.

[kringle77]

I can't get the picture with the specs to post. I talked to bruce at fliptops and he said that he told eminence to build him a clone of the cts with a neo magnet. I figured that it would be a neo version of the B810 so didn't really see the point, until I modeled it. There may be something to this speaker than just vintage hype. Now that I have an actual cts speaker in my hands as a reference, I can compare it directly with the neo and the weber when I get them. If they end up sounding the same, which I think they will, I'll probably stick with the weber's since they can be replaced. If I like the neo's better, I would probably buy 4 more and sell the webers. Either way, I will have an actual one to one comparison for you guys soon and not just spouting a bunch of bs. My biggest peeve on here is when guys give their strong opinions of gear that they have never actually played. This will be a comparison that I've wanted to do for awhile. I'll have the neo thursday and the webers a week or two after that. My only problem now is that I find myself with a severe shortage of gigs for the first time ever. Man, bars here are going broke. Never thought I would see the day.

[JimmyM]

That really sucks. Let's hope it's a minor setback and not a longtime trend.

This is an interesting development. For a long time, I heard no speaker makers were interested in doing neos that sound like vintage speakers because they wanted to see what new stuff they can do with neodymium. I guess they're out of new stuff to do now I'll be watching this one, mostly from the sidelines because I ain't givin' up my CTS's. But I'll bet Bruce sells a buttload of them.