TB153, for those who know

[u84six]

How would you describe their sound? Deep and warm? Bright and punchy? Or a bit of both? How would you describe them?

Also, any recommended head for these cabs?

[MuzikMan]

I haven't heard them but their design goal is to be relatively flat. They should not impart any "warmness" or "brightness" for instance.

[u84six]

Originally Posted by MuzikMan

I haven't heard them but their design goal is to be relatively flat. They should not impart any "warmness" or "brightness" for instance.

That's interesting, because a lot of speakers are responsible for producing warmness and specific tone. So to be able to get warmness from a flat sounding speaker/cab, you have to find an amp and possible eq that can do it?

[jnewmark]

Originally Posted by u84six

That's interesting, because a lot of speakers are responsible for producing warmness and specific tone. So to be able to get warmness from a flat sounding speaker/cab, you have to find an amp and possible eq that can do it?

It's been suggested more recently with the popularity of these 3 way cabs that are designed to put out whatever you put into them ( flat ), that a good eq section is a good idea. Sundogue could probably elaborate better than me on this topic.

[u84six]

Originally Posted by jnewmark

It's been suggested more recently with the popularity of these 3 way cabs that are designed to put out whatever you put into them ( flat ), that a good eq section is a good idea. Sundogue could probably elaborate better than me on this topic.

Well, the thing is, I like the staggered speaker setup and I like the light weight. Unfortunately, there's no place to test these cabs out around where I live. I like a really warm, long sustaining base tone (example: Pink Floyd), so I would have to hook this thing up to an amp that can produce that type of sound. With my previous setup, the warmth came from the speaker/enclosure, but they're much too heavy for me now. with that said, anyone have any suggestions on how to get a warm sound from an amp going into a flat cab?

[MuzikMan]

Usually it takes little more than rolling off the tone knob on a passive bass to get that warm sound. The upper frequency extension of the flat cab will not reproduce what isn't there in the first place.

[stflbn]

I think the OP will need either an amp head to produce the tone he wants, or a preamp to feed that tone to a clean amp head. These sort fo cabs aren't going to do it.

[u84six]

Originally Posted by stflbn

I think the OP will need either an amp head to produce the tone he wants, or a preamp to feed that tone to a clean amp head. These sort fo cabs aren't going to do it.

Are you talking neo cabs in general? Is it impossible to get a warm sound from light equipment?

[Bass_Pounder]

Originally Posted by u84six

Are you talking neo cabs in general? Is it impossible to get a warm sound from light equipment?

Thats not what is being said...............

Cabs like the fEarful, nEarful, TB153, etc. are meant to be "uncolored" and give flat response like a good set of studio monitors.

It will reproduce whatever your amp puts into it WITHOUT adding or subtracting from your signal due to "built in" tone shaping.

[u84six]

Originally Posted by Bass_Pounder

Thats not what is being said...............

Cabs like the fEarful, nEarful, TB153, etc. are meant to be "uncolored" and give flat response like a good set of studio monitors.

It will reproduce whatever your amp puts into it WITHOUT adding or subtracting from your signal due to "built in" tone shaping.

Ahh, thanks for clearing that up. As you can see, even though I've been playing for over 20 years, I'm a noob when it comes to equipment.

That being said, I guess some sort of tube preamp and a clean power amp (or hybrid) is now the focus for the warmth. I just don't want to lug around my SVT anymore.

[BurningSkies]

Originally Posted by u84six

That's interesting, because a lot of speakers are responsible for producing warmness and specific tone. So to be able to get warmness from a flat sounding speaker/cab, you have to find an amp and possible eq that can do it?

"warm tone" is one of those elusive descriptors that means different things to different people.

There’s this new subtle “game” of acting like the fEARful or any of the new/similar variants out there won’t to a ‘character voicing’. ALL voicings are a (more or less) complex combination of frequencies and how they’re reproduced. That’s what TONE is. While some people like to believe that they need a specific cab or cab type for ‘punchy’ or ‘warm’ or ‘grindy’ or any of the other editorial descriptors, the reality is that if you know what bands to emphasize (boost) or de-emphasize (attenuate) you can make a relatively ‘uncolored’ or “flat” cab sound however you want.

Probably the real failing is for people to understand that sometimes our descriptors are presenting a more complex tonal picture than some amps can produce (by way of EQ, or even by way of us understanding what needs to be adjusted). Of course, if you have an instrument that you like the tone of (and by instrument I mean, amp head, preamp, bass guitar, effects unit, etc.), you can get it. If you have decent tone shaping skills and experience you can get it.

In my case, I have a double fEARful rig. And for all the ‘clean-flat’, it’s as warm as you want. Because I have a kick-@$$ preamp that’s as warm as you could want. People also say it’s not punchy…but again, I have a bass that is ‘punchy’ as all get out. My Dingwall when run in series with the pickups run in series is a low mid punch machine. So my fEARful is punchy if I want it too. Rather than that…what if I want clean and hifi? My fEARful can do it. Change my bass to parallel settings, plug in my LMII, or use my Kern with the Tonal Balance turned up and I’ve got bright sheen, high def.

The Avatar is the same story. It’s probably about 90% of what you get from a fEARful for half the price…but count on a reasonably close likeness.

[u84six]

Originally Posted by BurningSkies

"warm tone" is one of those elusive descriptors that means different things to different people.

There’s this new subtle “game” of acting like the fEARful or any of the new/similar variants out there won’t to a ‘character voicing’. ALL voicings are a (more or less) complex combination of frequencies and how they’re reproduced. That’s what TONE is. While some people like to believe that they need a specific cab or cab type for ‘punchy’ or ‘warm’ or ‘grindy’ or any of the other editorial descriptors, the reality is that if you know what bands to emphasize (boost) or de-emphasize (attenuate) you can make a relatively ‘uncolored’ or “flat” cab sound however you want.

Probably the real failing is for people to understand that sometimes our descriptors are presenting a more complex tonal picture than some amps can produce (by way of EQ, or even by way of us understanding what needs to be adjusted). Of course, if you have an instrument that you like the tone of (and by instrument I mean, amp head, preamp, bass guitar, effects unit, etc.), you can get it. If you have decent tone shaping skills and experience you can get it.

In my case, I have a double fEARful rig. And for all the ‘clean-flat’, it’s as warm as you want. Because I have a kick-@$$ preamp that’s as warm as you could want. People also say it’s not punchy…but again, I have a bass that is ‘punchy’ as all get out. My Dingwall when run in series with the pickups run in series is a low mid punch machine. So my fEARful is punchy if I want it too. Rather than that…what if I want clean and hifi? My fEARful can do it. Change my bass to parallel settings, plug in my LMII, or use my Kern with the Tonal Balance turned up and I’ve got bright sheen, high def.

The Avatar is the same story. It’s probably about 90% of what you get from a fEARful for half the price…but count on a reasonably close likeness.

Thanks for the info, BurningSkies. Again, I'm a noob when it comes to equipment and I'm currently in a new band that has a style that welcomes warm and long sustaining bass. Unfortunately, my current rig is way to big and heavy for this band (currently own SVT-C and 412), so I'm now in search of a lighter cab (I like the Avatar because the 15/6 and price) and a pre-amp/amp or hybrid that's also lightweight. I went to a bunch of stores last week and tried a lot of what has been discussed around here, and ended up liking some of the Fender equipment better than Markbass, GK, GB, Ampeg, and more. But the Fender combo that I liked is pretty expensive and still very heavy. So if I could get something like the Avatar and a tube pre-amp/amp for a decent price, I'd probably be all set.

Man, it's tough to find equipment that sounds good to your ear.

[Sundogue]

Most commercial "full range" cabs are designed to produce a particular tonal profile...i.e. - scooped mids, pronounced mids, deep lows, etc. But they do it at the expense of other frequencies. Most cabs that produce deep lows don't have much upper mids or high end. Those that produce that "mid-hump" a bit above 100Hz (like all cabs that put too many speakers into too small a box...which is the majority out there) seem loud and produce that punchiness, but they can't produce deep lows. They utilize "full range" woofers that carry all but the highest and lowest content. So the speakers used are already a compromise and limited to the most often used frequencies. They do what they do very well, but that's why some cabs sound different than others. Their "voice" is a product of the design.

In other words, most commercial full range cabs produce extreme peaks or valleys in the frequency range, while doing so along a narrower bandwidth. No amount of EQing is going to radically alter that "voice". You have to find the one that fits your ideal sound.

Well designed Two or Three way systems are for the most part "flat", "even" or "uncolored" in that they don't produce extreme peaks or valleys in the frequency spectrum, but rather they cut a wide, even path all the way through the whole frequency range. They utilize speakers dedicated to their own specific task. Woofers provide the low end content and upper bass/lo-mids, while mid drivers handle the mids, upper mids and a lot of high end content. Horns and tweeters handle the extreme highs. Because each speaker is dedicated to it's own task, it is more capable of handling it's job better than a full range speaker that is expected to handle it everything, all by itself.

Because of that, a well designed two or three way cab using modern drivers is capable of greater output cleanly across the entire frequency range without extreme peaks or valleys or confined to a more limited swath anywhere throughout the bass' frequency range.

That's why if you have an amp (preamp actually) with greater tonal control (fairly extensive parametric and/or graphic EQ's) or a dedicated EQ, one can produce virtually any tone with a well designed modern two or three way cab because it's design is for the most part, limitless in comparison to a typical one way "full range" cab. It has less of it's own voice and more ability to offer you "your" voice.

If one can't dial in the tone they are after with a well designed two/three way cab, it is more likely that the amphead is the limiting factor. An amp with only tone controls like Bass, Mid, and Treble have essentially a three band EQ with each band covering a huge 1/3 of the frequency range. If you want to boost or cut somewhere in between to find "your" tone, you can't. And so, it is the amp limiting your tone sculpting ability, even though the cab can easily give you your ideal tone if you had the means to adjust it. fEARfuls for example, can give you whatever tone you want AND provide superior off-axis response (meaning they will sound good no matter where you or anyone stands). Don't expect them to if your amp is limited in tone sculpting options though. Adding a simple rackmount EQ or EQ pedal, would aid any amp in being able to do that. More ampheads today are including a more robust EQ section than in the old days. Shouldn't be too hard to find one that will do the trick.

There are more two and three ways designs out today like the Avatar TB153. I'll always recommend a fEARful design, simply because from a design standpoint, it's the best two or three way out there. Period. I'd still recommend any two or three way design over any full range cabs because they offer more flexibility in tone.

[Slackerprince]

I just got a Genz Benz Streamliner 900 and Avatar TB153.
These, together, will give you some great tone and the
amp has 3 tubes in the preamp, so I think it's plenty "warm."
You can get the Streamliner in a 600 to save a few bucks,
but I did a price match, so I got the 900 for less than the
retail of a 600.
Keep in mind that Neo speakers are undergoing a scarcity issue
with the supply of Neodymium, so their prices are going up.
Avatar has already raised the price by $40 since I got mine a
few weeks ago, and Dave at Avatar said they will continue to go up.
Not trying to put a fire under you, but those are the facts.
Good luck in your search.

Here's my rig:



S.

[Slackerprince]

Originally Posted by Sundogue

Most commercial "full range" cabs are designed to produce a particular tonal profile...i.e. - scooped mids, pronounced mids, deep lows, etc. But they do it at the expense of other frequencies. Most cabs that produce deep lows don't have much upper mids or high end. Those that produce that "mid-hump" a bit above 100Hz (like all cabs that put too many speakers into too small a box...which is the majority out there) seem loud and produce that punchiness, but they can't produce deep lows. They utilize "full range" woofers that carry all but the highest and lowest content. So the speakers used are already a compromise and limited to the most often used frequencies. They do what they do very well, but that's why some cabs sound different than others. Their "voice" is a product of the design.

In other words, most commercial full range cabs produce extreme peaks or valleys in the frequency range, while doing so along a narrower bandwidth. No amount of EQing is going to radically alter that "voice". You have to find the one that fits your ideal sound.

Well designed Two or Three way systems are for the most part "flat", "even" or "uncolored" in that they don't produce extreme peaks or valleys in the frequency spectrum, but rather they cut a wide, even path all the way through the whole frequency range. They utilize speakers dedicated to their own specific task. Woofers provide the low end content and upper bass/lo-mids, while mid drivers handle the mids, upper mids and a lot of high end content. Horns and tweeters handle the extreme highs. Because each speaker is dedicated to it's own task, it is more capable of handling it's job better than a full range speaker that is expected to handle it everything, all by itself.

Because of that, a well designed two or three way cab using modern drivers is capable of greater output cleanly across the entire frequency range without extreme peaks or valleys or confined to a more limited swath anywhere throughout the bass' frequency range.

That's why if you have an amp (preamp actually) with greater tonal control (fairly extensive parametric and/or graphic EQ's) or a dedicated EQ, one can produce virtually any tone with a well designed modern two or three way cab because it's design is for the most part, limitless in comparison to a typical one way "full range" cab. It has less of it's own voice and more ability to offer you "your" voice.

If one can't dial in the tone they are after with a well designed two/three way cab, it is more likely that the amphead is the limiting factor. An amp with only tone controls like Bass, Mid, and Treble have essentially a three band EQ with each band covering a huge 1/3 of the frequency range. If you want to boost or cut somewhere in between to find "your" tone, you can't. And so, it is the amp limiting your tone sculpting ability, even though the cab can easily give you your ideal tone if you had the means to adjust it. fEARfuls for example, can give you whatever tone you want AND provide superior off-axis response (meaning they will sound good no matter where you or anyone stands). Don't expect them to if your amp is limited in tone sculpting options though. Adding a simple rackmount EQ or EQ pedal, would aid any amp in being able to do that. More ampheads today are including a more robust EQ section than in the old days. Shouldn't be too hard to find one that will do the trick.

There are more two and three ways designs out today like the Avatar TB153. I'll always recommend a fEARful design, simply because from a design standpoint, it's the best two or three way out there. Period. I'd still recommend any two or three way design over any full range cabs because they offer more flexibility in tone.

This is a great explanation.

[mam1862]

I think the sound is very full and deep. The kind of bass you can feel. I use a GK MB Fusion as my main amp and I also have a Markbass Little Mark III as Z backup. I am able to get a wider variety of sound from the GK where the Markbass appears to have more of a powerful low sound. That's my take. I us an 8 ohm cab as I thought I might add something to it, but I don't think I will need to do that as this cab is great!