TC Electronic or Genz Benz

[newbold]

I briefly played a TC Stacatto '51 and they don't sound or respond quite the same as the RH4/750s do.

It was my ideal amp experience. It was perfect for me at the time but I never got a chance to gig it. Kick in a VTBass beforehand and it's as close as I've got to 'that sound' (which is wet dream fantasy Ampeg) even after playing Ampeg gear for days on end.

Of course...YMMV...

I'm a plucky, thumpy, mutey player as much as I can be, I love playing with a pick but rarely do...and until recently whenI swapped out to flats I played tapewound strings for a few years.

If it weren't for those short moments of bliss I'd be all over the better-supported domestic gear in a flash.

[Musicman20]

I must admit the Genz service is legendary. I've had good dealings with TC when they had a bad batch of knobs, but they don't have the hands on approach of Genz.

Tough one to choose.

What tone do you want?

Shuttle/Shuttlemax by Genz - Clear, quite transparent, bright.
Streamliner by Genz - Tubey, very very warm, beautiful high end.
RH450/750 by TC - Low mid kick orientated, like a slightly driven tube amp, vintage meets modern, (more so on the 750 with the increased high end).

[arai]

Originally Posted by Not yet

Wow I really don't know, never heard this before ever on a Genz Benz product. Ridiculous comment, you work for TC? This is the only time ever heard this for GB on this forum

It is a pretty bizarre gripe and as far as I know Genz is awesome in, customer support, reliability and tone.
But to accuse the poster of working for tc electronic is a bit presumptuous

[Fishheadjoe]

I was early on the TC bandwagon buying a RH450. I used it to gig and practice for a few years.
I recently picked up a Hartke amp as a back up and funny enough, the RH450 has not seen the outside of it's gig bag since. I grew to hate that amp!
Given your two choices, I would go with the Genz... seems to me that you will have many more tonal options with a Genz, then you will with the 450.
The TC does what it does and to my experience, not much more. Yes it does have a unique feature set, but the sound is the sound, regardless of features.
Fishheadjoe

[fretno]

You can't go wrong with either IMO .Both are great pieces of gear . I have found a keeper with the RHclassic though , finally. love that amp !

[Peepaleep]

Originally Posted by Not yet

Wow I really don't know, never heard this before ever on a Genz Benz product. Ridiculous comment, you work for TC? This is the only time ever heard this for GB on this forum

Ha ha - no, I don't work for TC. Just relaying my experience.

[Sav'nBass]

Well I am a die hard GB fan.. They have a customer for life with me. I have had no problems with either of the 3 heads I have owned and the current one surprises me still. I heard that tones were limited from the 900 but I find that I can get just about anything I could get in the 9.0 and then some.. maybe the preamp in my bass is part of that but I love the head. What kind of music will you be playing? What kind of bass are you playing through?

Originally Posted by agedhorse

That wasn't me, but we really haven't had any issues with the Speak-On's other than the occassional counterfit cable connector that is such a poor copy that it doesn't really fit nor does the release tab work properly. This is not something I would have thought of either until I had somebody send an amp in with this problem. In this case, the guts of the counterfit plug disembowled inside the amp's mating socket and the socket had to be desoldered from the amp and cut apart to get free of the chassis. There is a first for everything unfortunately.

You need to remember that we are all human, we do not always have the immediate answer to every question and sometimes, some of the questions we get are puzzling to say the least. Like the guy who called because his cabinet was making noise. I asked him what amp it was plugged into, and he said it wasn't plugged into anything, just sitting in his garage. I really couldn't come up with a good next step for him to try, I asked him for the serial number and when he tilted the cabinet forward to read it off the plate, mice ran out of the port. I never in a million years have gone down questioning leading to that diagnosis.

That was my experience too.. a lesson learned for sure.

ROFLMAO!! How did you not laugh when he said it wasn't plugged into anything just sitting in his garage. I am at my PC and that cracked me up!!

Food for thought here on the classifieds:

TCRH 450 $500

GB SL600 $475

[mccartneyman]

I've used Genz Benz amps for over 10 years, starting with the old tiltback 210 combo, progressing to the NEOX400 combo and finally getting the Shuttle 6.0 with the STL 112T combo. I added a NEOX 112T for more bottom end and have been very happy with the results. Holds its own in many situations, even with a rather loud band with two or three guitars, keys and a loud drummer. It also does a great job for upright bass. I've had only one service issue, and GB handled it, turning the amp around in less than week under warranty.

I also own a TC Electronic BG250 115 combo and like it. I bought it for the light weight and the availability of a 15 inch speaker. It does the job on small gigs and is incredibly loud for as small as it is and "only" 250 watts. I've also demoed the Staccato '51 head with a TC 212 cab and the BG500 115. The Staccato offers old school tone right out of the box. It's not as "hi-fi" as the Benz but it is punchy and delivers old- school thump very easily. The BG500 is loud as hell and I like how the single 15 sounds. They also offer it in a 210 configuration. I like the three presets, user-definable center points on the EQ, the built-in tuner, the Spectracomp and the TubeTone in the Staccato and RH Models. I have no experience with TC support.

[willsellout]

So far I like my Genz just fine. It has taken a little getting used to, but the last couple practices were pretty great sounding.

The amp feels a bit sturdier than the TC 450 I briefly demo'd and the sound is definitely there. I bought mine because of the sound, the customer service, and the warranty. It's been a good experience so far and I trust that if anything happens i'll be taken care of.

[aasti3000]

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

Well IMO, what you've done thus far is a good start. It shows a certain thoroughness & methodology in its own way, and that's useful. But unless you've already identified the specific applications you have in mind for a new amp, and have already matched up those requirements with the specific feature sets of these two particular amps, then you'd be selling yourself short by failing to expand your research and conduct your due diligence more widely. Fortunately, you've come to the right place to do that.

Both Genz Benz & TC Electronic are fine brands. But unless you have much better insight into your own playing needs than you've revealed in this thread thus far, you'd be doing no better than shooting in the dark to buy either one of them at this point, without doing more work first.

I suggest you get a lot more introspective about your amplification needs. Make a list of functions, features & attributes you'd find specifically useful to you - and the reasons why.

Spend some time lurking on the amp threads - if you haven't done so already - in order to pick up more information based on other players' experiences. Use the search function liberally in order to find deeper information on particular amps you find of interest.

Once you've reached this point, your questions are likely to be much better informed, and hence, more specific and targeted; likely to produce much better results. By that point, you may be in a position to make your best possible choice.

It's time-consuming, and can be somewhat labor-intensive. But it's the best, most thorough approach.

Or you can just make a "Hail Mary" pass, and hope for the best.

MM

MysticMike - I hear what you're saying. But since i'm new to all of this you advice might take a while. Like i said in the post, I've been practicing by playing along with rock, reggae, funk, jazz, R&B. I've only been playing since june. So I'll do the best i can with your advice. Don't know what to really look for in terms of specifications in an amp. Just what my ears tell me. Time to educate myself with amplifier specs I guess.

[aasti3000]

Originally Posted by JHAz

What are you playing through now? People who like the TC sound really like it, but it's heavily processed, and likely to sound different from what you are currently using. Not to say it sounds electronic-ified. It's supposed to mimic a driven tube amp, so it has limiting and multiband compression (which kinda sorta acts like EQ) that are not entirely bypassable and you may or may not find to be your cup of meat*.

*[You'll not see nothing like the mighty Quinn]

Right now I'm using a 35watt Ampeg...(just to start with until I got some cash to get a better one.)

[aasti3000]

Originally Posted by Musicman20

What tone do you want?

Shuttle/Shuttlemax by Genz - Clear, quite transparent, bright.
Streamliner by Genz - Tubey, very very warm, beautiful high end.
RH450/750 by TC - Low mid kick orientated, like a slightly driven tube amp, vintage meets modern, (more so on the 750 with the increased high end).

In terms of tones, I don't know how to label tones. I've read about them on TB but don't know what the terms mean. I'm still new. So the only idea I can give you is I like how Pino's tones sound. I also Ida Nielson's tone also (she's more of a slapper). Then I also like the melodic tones of Steve Bailey. But I don't know if it's their amp or if it's the studio mix. I still have a lot to learn in terms of being a "bassists".

[mjac28]

Originally Posted by agedhorse

You need to remember that we are all human, we do not always have the immediate answer to every question and sometimes, some of the questions we get are puzzling to say the least. Like the guy who called because his cabinet was making noise. I asked him what amp it was plugged into, and he said it wasn't plugged into anything, just sitting in his garage. I really couldn't come up with a good next step for him to try, I asked him for the serial number and when he tilted the cabinet forward to read it off the plate, mice ran out of the port. I never in a million years have gone down questioning leading to that diagnosis.

Amazing and I'm sure the mice were pissed! some guy just overturns the house for no reason it must have been sitting for some time for the mice to start homesteading unless he lived on a farm. I used to repair computers and I had a client who lived a long distance away delivered the computer everything worked out perfect and the next day I get a nasty voicemail about the computer being crap etc so I call and try to troubleshoot over the phone I must have said three times "is the computer plugged in" drive all the way out there and come to find out the cord was plugged into the computer but not the outlet !!!!! cat ripped it out doh!!.

[iualum]

Originally Posted by Musicman20

I have two Genz amps and the RH750, and I used to have the RH450.

The TC amps sound great and are very loud. They don't sound digital to me.

The Genz amps are equally great.

Use your ears and decide that way

Yes.

The Streamliner is great, no question. But the RH450 gets way to much negative press. It's a great amp as well. Letting your ears decide is always the best path, preferably a blind taste test.

[Modern Growl]

OP – I had both amps for a while and I kept the TC Electronic RH750. IMO it’s a superior head for many reasons:

Tone – They are both very warm, tubey sounding heads. I was surprised at just how similar sounding these heads were (Did A/B testing). The RH750 had a touch of a “quicker” sound to it… just a touch more tight & punchy.
I had one major issue with the Genz Benz (and I’ve read many other owners post this same exact issue here on TB) – on a 4-String bass, the E & A string sound full, but the D & G string sounded like there was a big drop off if full bodied tone. It seemed as if GB voiced their head to have a bump at a certain frequency curve… and somehow the D & G string suffered. I’m telling you man – it was the weirded phenomenon I’ve ever head from an amp. And from my research here on TB, dozens of others have commented on the same exact thing. The RH750 didn’t display this at all… every even full tone from all strings. It’s a shame too because I truly loved the tone of the STL900… but the volume drop on the D & G strings was too noticeable and a deal breaker. Good thing the RH750 had a very similar tube fatness (no, it doesn’t sound “digital” at all)… very organic warm tone.

EQ & Features – The RH750 hands down. It gives you a dedicated Low & Hi Mid control whereas the Streamliner made you select which midrange area you wanted to boost/cut. The RH750 gives you both Low & Hi mids to EQ with, and it also lets you dial in exactly what frequency you want to use… the ST600/900. It also gives you 3 pre-sets if you use different EQ’s for different songs. (FWIW – I find the factory standard EQ points perfect and I leave my head flat all the time – sounds perfect set flat). The Compressor on the RH750 is hands down the best compressor I’ve ever used, ever – and I’ve used many. It’s a multiband and is just downright amazing. The Tubetone control is also nice as well… left completely off, you get a pretty wide/deep sound out of the RH750. Boost it up 5-6 clicks and you get a fatter midrange with some slight “tube compression” on the low end & high end - just like a real tube head with the gain set high. The RH750 also has a built in tuner which I use all the time…

Conclusion: They both sound very, very similar. They are both very loud and will keep up for any gig. The deal breaker for me was the volume drop (thickness drop off) on the D & G string from the Streamliner… truly wished sting to string output was more even. And how uber feature rich the RH750 is. At first, I was very skeptical about the RH750 thinking it was “gimmicky” with all the bells & whistles. I thought it was going to sound “digital” from all the post I’ve read here from haters. That was until I played through it – my jaw literally dropped. All the features it has is just icing on the cake.

RH750 – hands down.

[Modern Growl]

PS - I have no idea why everyone is trying to pursade you to look at other amps. It seems you did your homework & selected two heads in the same ballpark. Portable/Light & Warm/Fat sounding heads.

I narrowed my choice down to these two heads myself.

[Modern Growl]

Originally Posted by fretno

You can't go wrong with either IMO .Both are great pieces of gear . I have found a keeper with the RHclassic though , finally. love that amp !

Funny - though I have the RH750, I keep my settings idential to yours. EQ set flat, with both the TubeTone & SpectraComp boosted about the same exact level as yours. Truly great, great sounding heads.

[Modern Growl]

Originally Posted by Fishheadjoe

Given your two choices, I would go with the Genz... seems to me that you will have many more tonal options with a Genz, then you will with the 450.
The TC does what it does and to my experience, not much more. Yes it does have a unique feature set, but the sound is the sound, regardless of features.

Every single amp has its own "baked in" sound. Every one. The GenzBenz included. Given the limited EQ options it has (and the plethora the RH450/750 has), I have no clue how you could say it would be more versitile.

Every amp has "it's sound". Every one. EQ options & features are the only way to alter it's tone. The RH750 will always sound like the RH750... And the Streamliner will always sound like the Streamliner. If any had an advantage at being more versitile, the RH750 gets the nod - especially due to the its preset abilities to make drastic tone changes mid song/ set.

[CL400Peavey]

My experiences differ:

Originally Posted by Modern Growl

Tone – They are both very warm, tubey sounding heads. I was surprised at just how similar sounding these heads were (Did A/B testing). The RH750 had a touch of a “quicker” sound to it… just a touch more tight & punchy.
I had one major issue with the Genz Benz (and I’ve read many other owners post this same exact issue here on TB) – on a 4-String bass, the E & A string sound full, but the D & G string sounded like there was a big drop off if full bodied tone. It seemed as if GB voiced their head to have a bump at a certain frequency curve… and somehow the D & G string suffered. I’m telling you man – it was the weirded phenomenon I’ve ever head from an amp. And from my research here on TB, dozens of others have commented on the same exact thing. The RH750 didn’t display this at all… every even full tone from all strings. It’s a shame too because I truly loved the tone of the STL900… but the volume drop on the D & G strings was too noticeable and a deal breaker. Good thing the RH750 had a very similar tube fatness (no, it doesn’t sound “digital” at all)… very organic warm tone.

What cab were you pairing the two amps with? I admit that I bumped the mids a bit when I was trying the SL out, but I didnt find it too lacking. Nothing a small EQ tweak couldnt fix. IMHO I did find the tonal "compression" of the TC to be a little hokey. Maybe that is due to how Hi-Fi my cab is, either way I found the TC lacking in the lows and highs.

Originally Posted by Modern Growl

EQ & Features – The RH750 hands down. It gives you a dedicated Low & Hi Mid control whereas the Streamliner made you select which midrange area you wanted to boost/cut. The RH750 gives you both Low & Hi mids to EQ with, and it also lets you dial in exactly what frequency you want to use… the ST600/900. It also gives you 3 pre-sets if you use different EQ’s for different songs. (FWIW – I find the factory standard EQ points perfect and I leave my head flat all the time – sounds perfect set flat). The Compressor on the RH750 is hands down the best compressor I’ve ever used, ever – and I’ve used many. It’s a multiband and is just downright amazing. The Tubetone control is also nice as well… left completely off, you get a pretty wide/deep sound out of the RH750. Boost it up 5-6 clicks and you get a fatter midrange with some slight “tube compression” on the low end & high end - just like a real tube head with the gain set high. The RH750 also has a built in tuner which I use all the time…

+1 to a more versatile EQ out of the box. I also found the EQ more useful/intuitive on the TC, but with a little tweaking I could get the SL where I wanted it pretty quickly.

Originally Posted by Modern Growl

Conclusion: They both sound very, very similar. They are both very loud and will keep up for any gig. The deal breaker for me was the volume drop (thickness drop off) on the D & G string from the Streamliner… truly wished sting to string output was more even. And how uber feature rich the RH750 is. At first, I was very skeptical about the RH750 thinking it was “gimmicky” with all the bells & whistles. I thought it was going to sound “digital” from all the post I’ve read here from haters. That was until I played through it – my jaw literally dropped. All the features it has is just icing on the cake.

RH750 – hands down.

For me the TC looses out on the feel of the build quality. The head feels cheap to me, the SL feels more solid and that may make zero difference in how it sounds but it is a selling point to me.

I played them, I know which one I prefer. I didnt go with either, but wouldnt be sad to have the SL-900 as a back up.

[mjac28]

I had one of the BH series amps really cool amp with a tone of options and TC has great customer support I really loved that Tube Tone Feature but as other have stated let your ears do the buying.