TC Electronic RH450 User Bandwagon Poll

[ustabawannab]

A new bleeding edge product comes out, some folks jump and the bandwagon then bail right away, others hang on for a bit longer then slide off and still others stay on and enjoy the ride. I'm close to pulling the trigger on the RH450 and the pedal but have seen a lot bought then returned to MF and also posted here.

I'm curious as to who kept them. Read my signature. I live by that philosophy.

[Musicman20]

I kept mine. Seriously good amp. Enjoy!

[stflbn]

I see no reason to get rid of mine. No Gas to at all...

[nostatic]

Bought it, had an issue, bought an MB LMTube as a second amp, used the LMTube while the TC was in the shop, ended up liking the LMTube better, sold the TC when it was eventually replaced. Better fit for my wants/needs. In the end I'm not a "feature" guy, and I liked the extra open top end and less wool of the LMTube.

[MetroBass]

I guess if you got yours before this you're probably not to thrilled.
TC Electronic RH450 discussion - Tweaking the Preamp

[stflbn]

Ya, but it's still unknown what level of usability or availability will exist with that RH450 editing cable and software for people with existing units.

I'm hopeful, but cautiously excited. But... i'm a lifely long skeptic...

[relwof]

Originally Posted by MetroBass

I guess if you got yours before this you're probably not to thrilled.
TC Electronic RH450 discussion - Tweaking the Preamp

FWIW, that actually was a big part of the reason I bought one. I'll be thrilled if TC comes out with an option to tweak the RH450 for the rest of us, but I'm not holding my breath. It rocks just fine without it, and IMHO the way TC ran that process was (and is) a sign of good things to come.

At this point, the only way I could see flipping mine is if TC comes out with a new tweaker-friendly model without offering an upgrade for current RH450s - so even then I'd simply be getting a newer TC. Either way, while I haven't had it long, I'm quite happy with mine so far.

[relwof]

Originally Posted by stflbn

Ya, but it's still unknown what level of usability or availability will exist with that RH450 editing cable and software for people with existing units.

I'm hopeful, but cautiously excited. But... i'm a lifely long skeptic...

Yeah, AFAIK TC hasn't said anything official about this, but from various bits and pieces it looks like it would take a firmware update to make this possible. That very likely requires opening up the case, connecting the right programmer, and properly uploading new firmware - which could turn your RH450 into a very expensive doorstop if you screw it up. So if TC ends up offering this, it will probably mean sending it back to TC for the firmware update. OTOH, it is (slightly) possible that they designed it to be field upgradeable without opening the case, but I wouldn't (and didn't) bet on it.

I'll be one of the first in line if the do offer an upgrade, but for now I'm more than satisfied with my simple, tweakability-challenged stock RH450.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by relwof

Yeah, AFAIK TC hasn't said anything official about this, but from various bits and pieces it looks like it would take a firmware update to make this possible. That very likely requires opening up the case, connecting the right programmer, and properly uploading new firmware - which could turn your RH450 into a very expensive doorstop if you screw it up. So if TC ends up offering this, it will probably mean sending it back to TC for the firmware update. OTOH, it is (slightly) possible that they designed it to be field upgradeable without opening the case, but I wouldn't (and didn't) bet on it.

I'll be one of the first in line if the do offer an upgrade, but for now I'm more than satisfied with my simple, tweakability-challenged stock RH450.

Being one of the 'tweaker crew', after all the messing around I did with it, my recommendation to TC was 'don't bother'. The head sounds so darn good the way it is, and with four bands of semi-parametric EQ, not much you can't do at this point.

The ONLY thing I found to improve the tone of the RH450 in any way was to move the lo pass filter up a touch to open up the upper treble. However, they already have a knob (tweetertone) that does that with the newest combo's, so I assume that will be included in the next version of the RH450.

[JOME77]

Originally Posted by stflbn

Ya, but it's still unknown what level of usability or availability will exist with that RH450 editing cable and software for people with existing units.

I'm hopeful, but cautiously excited. But... i'm a lifely long skeptic...

This is true.

I got a chance to trade mine even for a mint Thunderfunk 550B and and jumped on it. The Tfunk was actually what I was looking for when I purchased the TC head. I couldn't find a good used one at the time.
I'll probably try another RH450 after the smoke clears and when I'm convinced that they've added the capability to get more high end out of the amp.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by JOME77

This is true.

I got a chance to trade mine even for a mint Thunderfunk 550B and and jumped on it. The Tfunk was actually what I was looking for when I purchased the TC head. I couldn't find a good used one at the time.
I'll probably try another RH450 after the smoke clears and when I'm convinced that they've added the capability to get more high end out of the amp.

As a former TF owner, I actually find the TF as rolled off up top as the RH450 So, I find that a little bit of a strange trade. The RH will smoke the TF550b volume wise and also in the low end (you really notice this if you slap and high volume... there is very little if any compression in the low end of the RH450 versus the TF). The TF550b sounds great though if you like it warm and mid punchy, but totally clean.

Just FYI, many of us who used the TF550b and wanted a more open low end, a bit more volume, and a more even, extended upper treble, switched to the Markbass LMII (now the LMIII). I can get my LMII to sound virtually identical to the TF550b by rolling off some deep low end and using the passive treble roll-off to clamp off anything above around 5K. Might be worth a listen if you find the TF too 'mid warm and compressed' for your taste.

[JOME77]

Originally Posted by KJung

As a former TF owner, I actually find the TF as rolled off up top as the RH450 So, I find that a little bit of a strange trade. The RH will smoke the TF550b volume wise and also in the low end (you really notice this if you slap and high volume... there is very little if any compression in the low end of the RH450 versus the TF). The TF550b sounds great though if you like it warm and mid punchy, but totally clean.

Just FYI, many of us who used the TF550b and wanted a more open low end, a bit more volume, and a more even, extended upper treble, switched to the Markbass LMII (now the LMIII). I can get my LMII to sound virtually identical to the TF550b by rolling off some deep low end and using the passive treble roll-off to clamp off anything above around 5K. Might be worth a listen if you find the TF too 'mid warm and compressed' for your taste.

Ken,
While I agree that the Tfunk also has somewhat subtle highend, it does have the abitlity to EQ more highend via the enhance and semi-parametric EQ (than the TC head). I could vary the center freq. of the treble on the TC head and crank it full and still only notice sublte changes in the highend.

And, IMO, there was no comparison to the sound of the Thunderfunk verse the TC head in a live gig situation. The Thunderfunk just plain cuts through the mix better.
On the issue of overall volume, I don't know if you're relying on memory or an actual A/B of the 2 but based on my A/B comparison (with a Berg HT-112) the TC was not capable of higher clean volume than the Tfunk. Of course either one is more than adequate for my required volume needs.

Had I not been approached to make the trade I'm sure that thet TC head would have ultimately met my needs.
But one things for sure, the Tfunk sound and design has stood the test of time, and still is a great sounding head.

Since the TC head is relatively new, I can always add a TC head to my collection. The Tfunk 550 head, which is no longer in production, will continue to get harder to find.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by JOME77

Ken,
While I agree that the Tfunk also has somewhat subtle highend, it does have the abitlity to EQ more highend via the enhance and semi-parametric EQ (than the TC head). I could vary the center freq. of the treble on the TC head and crank it full and still only notice sublte changes in the highend.

And, IMO, there was no comparison to the sound of the Thunderfunk verse the TC head in a live gig situation. The Thunderfunk just plain cuts through the mix better.
On the issue of overall volume, I don't know if you're relying on memory or an actual A/B of the 2 but based on my A/B comparison (with a Berg HT-112) the TC was not capable of higher clean volume than the Tfunk. Of course either one is more than adequate for my required volume needs.

Had I not been approached to make the trade I'm sure that thet TC head would have ultimately met my needs.
But one things for sure, the Tfunk sound and design has stood the test of time, and still is a great sounding head.

Since the TC head is relatively new, I can always add a TC head to my collection. The Tfunk 550 head, which is no longer in production, will continue to get harder to find.

At 8ohms, I agree they are pretty close. At 4, the RH pulls away, again especially on hard transients, where the TF really can shut down and clamp.

I find them pretty similar in live situations (comparing the same room, cab, and bass with the two heads).... those heads definitely are in the same tone universe to my ear... warm, tight, punchy, clean, not particularly low end nor high end extended.

Also, +1, the enhance control is key on the TF, and that helps. I avoid those controls like the plague on other amps, but at around the 10 o'clock setting, the TF evens out a bit more up top and down below. That's a nice control with the TF... much more subtle than other 'enhance type' circuits.

I never had much luck with the narrow Q upper mid control or the shelving set at that low shelving start point to dial in much upper treble with the TF. However, just like the TC head, I dig the upper mid presence in a mix better than the sizzle at this point anyway. I could easily gig the TF again with no issues!

[JOME77]

Originally Posted by KJung

At 8ohms, I agree they are pretty close. At 4, the RH pulls away, again especially on hard transients, where the TF really can shut down and clamp.

I find them pretty similar in live situations (comparing the same room, cab, and bass with the two heads).... those heads definitely are in the same tone universe to my ear... warm, tight, punchy, clean, not particularly low end nor high end extended.

Also, +1, the enhance control is key on the TF, and that helps. I avoid those controls like the plague on other amps, but at around the 10 o'clock setting, the TF evens out a bit more up top and down below. That's a nice control with the TF... much more subtle than other 'enhance type' circuits.

I never had much luck with the narrow Q upper mid control or the shelving set at that low shelving start point to dial in much upper treble with the TF. However, just like the TC head, I dig the upper mid presence in a mix better than the sizzle at this point anyway. I could easily gig the TF again with no issues!

I think that we agree on the major points.
I was really impressed with the TC head, just given the opportunity to get back into the Thunderfunk and Berg, I took it
For some reason I didn't think that the TC head sounded as good with the Bert HT-112 as the Thunderfunk. The Tfunk just has so much creamy musical mids when cranked through the Berg and the TC just sounded less defined and a bit muddy. In honesty though, I didn't play around with EQ'ing the TC head with the Berg much though.
The Tfunk just sounds great flat through the Berg and when I plugged in my fretless Roscoe and turned the Timbre control to around 10-11, the growl from the fretless is just awesome. Not quite as simple to dial in on the TC.

On another subject (totally off topic), I read your thread on the Hartke 500 head and actually got a chance to demo one this weekend. IMO you were right on when comparing it to the Alembic F-1X pre. Such a nice pillowy tone!
IMO, for the $$$'s, that Hartke head might be the best deal out there!

[KJung]

Originally Posted by JOME77

I think that we agree on the major points.
I was really impressed with the TC head, just given the opportunity to get back into the Thunderfunk and Berg, I took it
For some reason I didn't think that the TC head sounded as good with the Bert HT-112 as the Thunderfunk. The Tfunk just has so much creamy musical mids when cranked through the Berg and the TC just sounded less defined and a bit muddy. In honesty though, I didn't play around with EQ'ing the TC head with the Berg much though.
The Tfunk just sounds great flat through the Berg and when I plugged in my fretless Roscoe and turned the Timbre control to around 10-11, the growl from the fretless is just awesome. Not quite as simple to dial in on the TC.

On another subject (totally off topic), I read your thread on the Hartke 500 head and actually got a chance to demo one this weekend. IMO you were right on when comparing it to the Alembic F-1X pre. Such a nice pillowy tone!
IMO, for the $$$'s, that Hartke head might be the best deal out there!

+1 All different flavors of good. I have about a zillion gigs under my belt with the TF (I loved them so much I bought all three models over the years as they were released... the 420, the 550a, and then finally the 550b)... super high quality, and as you say, lots of mids right were they should be when amplifying a bass guitar.

[relwof]

Originally Posted by JOME77

For some reason I didn't think that the TC head sounded as good with the Bert HT-112 as the Thunderfunk.

Originally Posted by KJung

At 8ohms, I agree they are pretty close. At 4, the RH pulls away, again especially on hard transients, where the TF really can shut down and clamp.

Maybe I just haven't spent enough time with this caliber of bass gear, or maybe having an EX-112 and an HT-112 together makes a difference, but the thought that another amp could make those cabs sound noticeably better than the RH450 is just scary. Not saying it's impossible, just that my head might explode if I heard it for myself...

[Eublet]

I can see how the general community might see all the lights and features on the RH450 and think it's a fly-by-night gizmo, but these heads are rock solid performers. Sure there is an inherrent voicing that might not appeal to some, so the idea to try before you buy is still valid. But the RH450 is one of the biggest market splashes I've seen in a while, meaning that it's a huge hit for their first bass head. I also find the tweaking software to be a bit much for most users, but since it's easily accessible I don't think there's any harm that could be done in offering to folks who want it as an accessory package. Personally, I'd rather see them add a bit more power (just because that's always a goal, right?) and a Tweetertone knob on future bass heads. IMHO this would make such a head virtually unstoppable.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by relwof

Maybe I just haven't spent enough time with this caliber of bass gear, or maybe having an EX-112 and an HT-112 together makes a difference, but the thought that another amp could make those cabs sound noticeably better than the RH450 is just scary. Not saying it's impossible, just that my head might explode if I heard it for myself...

Just different flavors of great IMO, not really a better or worse. The RH is a touch better for me in that it is smaller, a fuller feature set, and has a little more balls when really pushed than my old TF, and is still in a similar 'tone universe'... i.e., mid punchy, tight, warm, and a bit old school up top.

[DiabolicLow B]

I returned mine with the RS212 after using it for three gigs, it is a good amp with great features but I just wasn't digging the "grind" in the tone no matter how I tweaked the eq. I really liked the amp at home and in the shop but it wasn't working for me playing live.

[ustabawannab]

Thanks for he feedback on this and other threads.

I have a TC Electronics RH450 & Footswitch (eBaY), RS210 (TB Classifieds) showing up around Friday just in time for BP this weekend. I also have one of the first few production DNA DNS-112Ns on the market coming around July 5. The Mini Rig of Doom is coming together.