TC RH450 Club

[Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]

Originally Posted by drpepper

Hey Alvaro, I really found your video enlightening as well. Since you're here (or you were), I was hoping you might clarify some points on the frequency selection.

In summary:

The process involves boosting the level of the Bass, Lo-Mid, Hi-Mid or Treble to maximum while cutting the other three all the way and then making frequency adjustments to find the ideal point.

Bass

Goal - Find the frequency with the best balance of power and definition, avoiding a boomy/muddy sound from being too low and lack of power from being too high.

Process - Pluck open E while adjusting the bass shelving frequency, listening for the point where the power and definition are maximized.

Lo-Mid

Goal - Find the frequency where the sound is strongest.

Process - Play 5th fret harmonic on the G string while adjusting the Lo-Mid center frequency, listening for the point where the harmonic is most powerful.

Hi-Mid

Goal - Find the frequency where the sound is the most "aggressive."

Things were pretty straight forward to this point in the video, and this is where my first question comes in. I suppose "aggressive" is a term open to personal interpretation, so I'm not sure what to do with this one. Can you expand on what is being looked for?

Process - Pop open G string while adjusting the Hi-Mid center frequency, listening for the point where the sound is most "aggressive."

Treble

Goal - Find the frequency where the brightness of the sound is most pleasant.

Again, this is open to personal interpretation, so I was wondering if you could elaborate, especially for what sound qualities you were looking for in rubbing the strings?

Process - Two alternatives (1) pop open G string or (2) rub the strings while adjusting the Treble shelving frequency, listening for the point where the brightness is captured best.

What a great way to put up a question, man. Thank you so much for asking!

As you say, everybody can understand/feel this kind of stuff in very different ways. I'll try to explain mine and hope to be clear about it (please let me know, of course!).

Although of course hi-mids and highs give different sonic results, I'd say that my principle to adjust them is basically the same: Think as if you use a thick blanket to cover your speaker(s). That's how (to me) the bass sounds like with hi-mids and highs rolled off. And even with those frequencies at maximum volume, it can still sound like that without the right shelving frquency. What I look for while popping the G string and/or rubbing the strings is the exact point in which you feel like taking the blanket off the speakers. Exceeding that point will result in a harshly bright tone. But there's a spot in which you feel that the sound "opens up", as if the speakers were "breathing" after being locked in a dark dungeon.

That's the reason why I never use the Momark's VLE (Vintage Loudspeaker Emulator) filter. I don't like a muffled bass tone (not overly bright either, I must say) and that's why, while being a big McCartney fan, I hate the tone he chose for the studio recording of "Day Tripper". Another kind of bass tone I dislike is the one on Lenny Kravitz's "Are You Gonna Go My way?". Notice that, while it's a well-known fact that James Jamerson's tone is far from being "hi-middy" or "trebly", it doesn't sound dull as the examples above (again, to me). Jamerson-type tone may not be what I'd use in a regular playing situation, but it's a great one nonetheless. McCartney recorded many great-sounding lines with his Höfner, but his tone on "Day Tripper" doesn't speak to me.

Hope this helps. Please let me know if you want me to give a different approach to my explanation.

[drpepper]

Originally Posted by DeadGoonz

Enough power to push my older 800 watt Boogie RR 2 x 15 in medium/large size clubs with two guitars (metal) and loud drummer. We tend to play louder than needed but that's kinda what we do. I have been using a SWR 450 which seems to work well for me I just don't like the SWR sound any longer.

By most accounts, it's as loud or louder than the garden variety 500W Class D amp.

Concern would be that you have specific tonal goals. Have you had a chance to hear one?

To me, medium/large clubs means PA support. If that's the case, assuming that you like the way it sounds, I'd think you could have at it. If you're talking large, loud and no PA, I'd think you'd want to look at something louder. Edit: capable of being louder, without being pushed to the edge.

[drpepper]

Originally Posted by Alvaro Martín Gómez A.

What a great way to put up a question, man. Thank you so much for asking!

As you say, everybody can understand/feel this kind of stuff in very different ways. I'll try to explain mine and hope to be clear about it (please let me know, of course!).

Although of course hi-mids and highs give different sonic results, I'd say that my principle to adjust them is basically the same: Think as if you use a thick blanket to cover your speaker(s). That's how (to me) the bass sounds like with hi-mids and highs rolled off. And even with those frequencies at maximum volume, it can still sound like that without the right shelving frquency. What I look for while popping the G string and/or rubbing the strings is the exact point in which you feel like taking the blanket off the speakers. Exceeding that point will result in a harshly bright tone. But there's a spot in which you feel that the sound "opens up", as if the speakers were "breathing" after being locked in a dark dungeon.

That's the reason why I never use the Momark's VLE (Vintage Loudspeaker Emulator) filter. I don't like a muffled bass tone (not overly bright either, I must say) and that's why, while being a big McCartney fan, I hate the tone he chose for the studio recording of "Day Tripper". Another kind of bass tone I dislike is the one on Lenny Kravitz's "Are You Gonna Go My way?". Notice that, while it's a well-known fact that James Jamerson's tone is far from being "hi-middy" or "trebly", it doesn't sound dull as the examples above (again, to me). Jamerson-type tone may not be what I'd use in a regular playing situation, but it's a great one nonetheless. McCartney recorded many great-sounding lines with his Höfner, but his tone on "Day Tripper" doesn't speak to me.

Hope this helps. Please let me know if you want me to give a different approach to my explanation.

Aww man, "Day Tripper" and "Are You Gonna Go My Way" are my favorite bass tones of all time...

Kidding

Seriously, thanks for a great description in the blanket analogy! I think that the point between the blanket being lifted and harshness setting in is a fantastic way to describe what you mean by the most aggressive point.

Thanks again.

[Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]

Originally Posted by drpepper

Aww man, "Day Tripper" and "Are You Gonna Go My Way" are my favorite bass tones of all time...

Kidding

Seriously, thanks for a great description in the blanket analogy! I think that the point between the blanket being lifted and harshness setting in is a fantastic way to describe what you mean by the most aggressive point.

Thanks again.

My pleasure! Please let me know whenever you feel I may help.

[radicalwalrus]

It seems like a lot of RH450 owners couple their head with the RS210 and/or 212 cabs. Would you all say that the cabs compliment the head better than other brands?

I'm in the market for a RH450 but I've just always preferred having a different brand of head and cab. Of course, if you just can't beat the two of them paired up that's the way I'll go, but I'd like to know what some of you guys think about the head with TC cabs and other brand cabs.

[drpepper]

Originally Posted by radicalwalrus

It seems like a lot of RH450 owners couple their head with the RS210 and/or 212 cabs. Would you all say that the cabs compliment the head better than other brands?

I'm in the market for a RH450 but I've just always preferred having a different brand of head and cab. Of course, if you just can't beat the two of them paired up that's the way I'll go, but I'd like to know what some of you guys think about the head with TC cabs and other brand cabs.

My RH750 sounds awfully good with my Genz Benz Uber 410

KJung has tested and posted quite a bit about some combinations he liked and didn't...maybe a search, maybe he'll chime in.

What configuration are you looking at?

[tombowlus]

I really like the RH450 with one or two Ampeg SVT-210AV's. Another great pairing, IME/IMHO are the AudioKinesis TC112 and TC115.

[Andy_D]

Originally Posted by Low Class

A friend of mine just did a side by side comparison with the RH450 and BH250 and the BH250 seemed to have more power.

Interesting... I have a BH500 which I purchased because the price was right ($350 shipped new). I drive a Carvin BRX 210 and it has tons of reserve power. I hardly ever push the master past 12 O'Clock. It would be interesting to hear how this rig would sound with another additional cabinet perhaps a 2 x 12. Not that I need it now but if I ever do there's plenty of power to spare.

[Fishheadjoe]

Curious about anyone using the 450 with a Berg NV610?
I have been using my Hartke 3500TA with the cab and religated the 450 to back up status.
That said, I have not had an opportunity to try the 450 with the Berg as the Berg only gets out for gigs. I really like the Hartke with that cab, but I am also curious about how the 450would sound with the Berg.
Anyone try this combo yet?
Thanks,

Fishheadjoe

[drpepper]

Originally Posted by Fishheadjoe

Curious about anyone using the 450 with a Berg NV610?
I have been using my Hartke 3500TA with the cab and religated the 450 to back up status.
That said, I have not had an opportunity to try the 450 with the Berg as the Berg only gets out for gigs. I really like the Hartke with that cab, but I am also curious about how the 450would sound with the Berg.
Anyone try this combo yet?
Thanks,

Fishheadjoe

Not real helpful since it's not me (and I can't remember who it was), but we had an area GTG and there was a guy with an NV610 and RH450. Sounded nice...very tight, as I recall.

He got to throw a few different heads into the mix. He tried my RH750 and possibly someone's TH500 and STL900?

What I do know is that he came in happy with his rig but questioning whether he might like something more or different. He left satisfied that the RH450 was doing everything he wanted.

I'll have to see if I can remember who that was and see if they're still active on the forum.

[tombowlus]

Originally Posted by Fishheadjoe

Curious about anyone using the 450 with a Berg NV610?

I can see that being a very good combo. Tom Lees has my RH450, now, but I do have an RH750, and I'll give this combo a go, when I get a chance.

[radicalwalrus]

Originally Posted by tombowlus

I really like the RH450 with one or two Ampeg SVT-210AV's. Another great pairing, IME/IMHO are the AudioKinesis TC112 and TC115.

Do you have quite a bit of experience with the Ampegs? Would you say they're built to last? Even through touring?

[tombowlus]

Originally Posted by radicalwalrus

Do you have quite a bit of experience with the Ampegs? Would you say they're built to last? Even through touring?

I have gigged them as a "weekend warrior" type, but not on tour. They aren't super heavy duty, but they seem reasonably durable for a lightweight cab.

[Fishheadjoe]

Thanks Drpepper and Tom... I'm kinda curious how it would work (the 450 and NV610 combo).
Unfortunately, we don't have a gig for a bit due to scheduling, so I won't get a chance to try it out for a while.
Kinda cold in my garage to mess around with it, this time of year...
Fishheadjoe

[drpepper]

Originally Posted by Fishheadjoe

Thanks Drpepper and Tom... I'm kinda curious how it would work (the 450 and NV610 combo).
Unfortunately, we don't have a gig for a bit due to scheduling, so I won't get a chance to try it out for a while.
Kinda cold in my garage to mess around with it, this time of year...
Fishheadjoe

Looking back at the GTG for the RH450/NV610, the guy's name is Mark (User "Sparks55"). PM him. Solid dude and the type who's happy to help out.

[Weeb51]

Originally Posted by larrison

I had this problem with the cable my RH750 came with. It would not keep a good connection with the head. I just use my other speakon cables...

Thanks Larrison, I'll give that a try.

[Weeb51]

Originally Posted by Sherfraz

The speakon cable I got with RS212 had a similar problem. I had another better quality cable that worked fine. So, I unscrewed the end of one that came with my cab and found one of the connections inside was loose. It was simple to fix (just need a small screwdriver) and now it works fine.

I like this amp so much I have been putting up with the flaw but I try this and see what happens. Thanks, Sherfraz.

[Sparks55]

Originally Posted by drpepper

Looking back at the GTG for the RH450/NV610, the guy's name is Mark (User "Sparks55"). PM him. Solid dude and the type who's happy to help out.

Thanks for the props! Yes, I've been quite happy with the NV610/RH450 combo. I liked the tone of the 450 over the 750. Something about tube-like warmth from a little tubetone on the 450 that I thought sounded better. The cabinet definitely breathes more with the watts of the 750 but the 450 puts out plenty for my needs. More than loud! I always have full PA for larger gigs. I think the 610 cuts better with the band than an old 8x10 cab, without needing to add a bunch of 800hx "gank". For reference, my main axe is a Carvin SB5000 with stainless rounds and I play blues/rock covers.

On the other hand, on gigs where I don't want to carry the 610 or stage room is tight, I'll use a combination of the RS cabs instead. These ported cabs add a whole other tone palette. The RH450 is very versatile, easy to carry, and a good value. Right now I'm playing keys/guitar but if I get another bass gig I think I will pick up a spare RH450. I was going to build my second rig as a preamp/amp/full-range cabinet set-up and stopped myself because I realized I kept going back to the 450 and liking it better.

I started playing out again after working behind the FOH for almost 30 years and keep getting cool compliments from other sound guys on my tone (direct from the RH450). How is that for an endorsement? I'm a little north of Baltimore if you get around here and want to try it out. I think I saw someone else from Maryland selling a 610 recently on TB (see the NV610 thread). I got mine from another TB'r (Ron Plichta in Virginia). Funny story: he was selling it on TB and I made a drooling comment as a bump (I wasn't looking). Just happened that he had a meeting up here 2 minutes from my work the following week and poof! went my savings account... Not that I'm complaining.

Mark

[Jheake]

For those of you who have the RH450 or RH750, Im looking at gettng the RH750 (i like the tweetertone) I previously owned the BG500 210 model and I really liked its features. It would really compress the lowend when I turned it up though.

That being said my question is, Do the RH450 and RH750 squeeze the lowend like that as well. I mean these are impressive amps. Im just afraid of that "limiting" feature that was built into my BG500.

I could get any tone I wanted for the most part. When I wanted to play Reggae or DUb and cranked the bass knob up though it would squish my low-end at high levels. I just dont want to dish out the grand, and find that happening again. probably part of the reason Im looking at the RH750 in stead of the 450 as well.

Thoughts guys?

[jozenerd]

I also had been experiencing some troubles with my connection cable, I was thinking in replace both of them for higher quality cables.
Last time happened in a live performance and I had to disassemble it in a dark place when all other musicians where ready to play and with a guitar player making fun of my TC!
This plastic connection cables are proved to be bad quality, TC electronic should provide good ones with the cabinets.