TFB550B vs. UL502.....the winner???? Markbass SD800!!!!!

[ElMon]

This is just a preliminary report before the real world testing that will be done this week, but I can say this:

Out of all three amps that informed my decision, the Markbass was markedly louder than either Epi or Tfunk, was so light I could grip it between my fingertips and walk out to the car with it sans strain, and had elements of both the Epi and the TFunk in its design with added horsepower.

So far, the best thing I like about it, after some extremely loud apartment playiing, is that I truly can leave the EQ completely flat and use nothing but the VLE (Vintage Loudspeaker Emulator) and VPF (Variable Pre-shape Filter) to get whatever sound I need. In this regard the SD800 is similar to how most people run the TFB550B; the enhance and timbre knob do the job for most. Where the Enhance knob and Timbre knob get (IMO) too extreme more than 1 or 2 clicks in either direction (especially the Timbre knob), the SD800's variation on this concept is (so far) usable throughout the entire range of the knob.

How's it sound?

Well, it has the abilty to cop the tones of anything I want so far. Set completely flat and turned up halfway on both gain and master, the sound was full and punchy with a thick presence that really reminded me of the 'heft' of my old DB750. Of course, no amp can truly do what big daddy Aggie can do, but it was close. The headroom was incredible. That alone set it apart from the pack.

The way I approached the EQ was that I concentrated on the VLE and VPF knobs to get whatever sound I was feeling, from the full range and punchy modern tones that can be had with the amp set flat to the corpulent tube fatness that it can get when the VLE knob is set to 2/3pm or so. The VLE knob REALLY loves the pre on the Sadowsky by the way. Anyways, if I wanted to dial in more midrange to the sound, the Low/High Mid knobs with their sweapable range added additional texture and thickness without sounding colored. The VPF knob was suitable in giving the amp that classic 'scooped slap tone' that is quite frankly still going to have to grow on me, but in general I've left it off. To me, the magic is in that VLE knob. It's amazingly accurate at both modern solid state and old school bloom (think Ampeg B-15) with the twist of one knob. The Tfunk remains more versatile IMO, but for my needs, the hookup between the the high octane power of the SD800 and the Full-Range clarity of the UL410 is pretty hip.

The only thing I"m nervous about now is if I have any repair issures. Knock on wood, and that's in the hands of the bass gods of course, but all the same.......
Good thing I bought an extended warranty with GC!!!!


I will of course follow up with some comments on how it sits with the rest of my band later this week. Can't wait!!!! Its good to be able to bury a drummer again!!!!!

[maurilio]

Originally Posted by ElMon

This is just a preliminary report before the real world testing that will be done this week, but I can say this:

Out of all three amps that informed my decision, the Markbass was markedly louder than either Epi or Tfunk, was so light I could grip it between my fingertips and walk out to the car with it sans strain, and had elements of both the Epi and the TFunk in its design with added horsepower.

So far, the best thing I like about it, after some extremely loud apartment playiing, is that I truly can leave the EQ completely flat and use nothing but the VLE (Vintage Loudspeaker Emulator) and VPF (Variable Pre-shape Filter) to get whatever sound I need. In this regard the SD800 is similar to how most people run the TFB550B; the enhance and timbre knob do the job for most. Where the Enhance knob and Timbre knob get (IMO) too extreme more than 1 or 2 clicks in either direction (especially the Timbre knob), the SD800's variation on this concept is (so far) usable throughout the entire range of the knob.

How's it sound?

Well, it has the abilty to cop the tones of anything I want so far. Set completely flat and turned up halfway on both gain and master, the sound was full and punchy with a thick presence that really reminded me of the 'heft' of my old DB750. Of course, no amp can truly do what big daddy Aggie can do, but it was close. The headroom was incredible. That alone set it apart from the pack.

The way I approached the EQ was that I concentrated on the VLE and VPF knobs to get whatever sound I was feeling, from the full range and punchy modern tones that can be had with the amp set flat to the corpulent tube fatness that it can get when the VLE knob is set to 2/3pm or so. The VLE knob REALLY loves the pre on the Sadowsky by the way. Anyways, if I wanted to dial in more midrange to the sound, the Low/High Mid knobs with their sweapable range added additional texture and thickness without sounding colored. The VPF knob was suitable in giving the amp that classic 'scooped slap tone' that is quite frankly still going to have to grow on me, but in general I've left it off. To me, the magic is in that VLE knob. It's amazingly accurate at both modern solid state and old school bloom (think Ampeg B-15) with the twist of one knob. The Tfunk remains more versatile IMO, but for my needs, the hookup between the the high octane power of the SD800 and the Full-Range clarity of the UL410 is pretty hip.

The only thing I"m nervous about now is if I have any repair issures. Knock on wood, and that's in the hands of the bass gods of course, but all the same.......
Good thing I bought an extended warranty with GC!!!!


I will of course follow up with some comments on how it sits with the rest of my band later this week. Can't wait!!!! Its good to be able to bury a drummer again!!!!!

Hello, that sounds good! How much it goes at the GC, if I may ask, please?
Do you have any experience with Eden? .....

M

[ElMon]

Originally Posted by maurilio

Hello, that sounds good! How much it goes at the GC, if I may ask, please?
Do you have any experience with Eden? .....

M

Its $1199.00 on the tag, and a good deal at that for an amp that I'd put right up there with Eden/EA/Aguilar/Epifani, etc. Ya know, I have had experience with Eden stuff, and the Mark head has similarities in warmth, but yet maintains a tight bottom. It really shines in the Low Mids IMO.

[maurilio]

Originally Posted by ElMon

Its $1199.00 on the tag, and a good deal at that for an amp that I'd put right up there with Eden/EA/Aguilar/Epifani, etc. Ya know, I have had experience with Eden stuff, and the Mark head has similarities in warmth, but yet maintains a tight bottom. It really shines in the Low Mids IMO.

it sounds more and more interesting, damn.... and I don't have money right now!

M

[ElMon]

Originally Posted by maurilio

it sounds more and more interesting, damn.... and I don't have money right now!

M

Its worth checkin out if only to feel such power coming from something lighter than a rackcase.

[maurilio]

I will, soon or later! I just have a weird reaction just only thinking of going to a GC..... sorry... long story!

Jokes aside.... I'll see if I can find some time next week! in the meantime, please, keep us informed how it goes with the Italian sport car, I mean amp!

M

[Alistair R]

Awesome! Markbass products truely are amazing IMO.

What I love about the Markbass heads are their EQs. Simple as anything, just leave them flat and use the filters as you said. Too easy!

Cool review, too.

[jokerjkny]

hmm...

as always, lovin' the comparison, elmon. but i gotta admit, IME, in terms of 3D'ness at band volume, i'd go from most to least:

epifani
tf
mb

while i too like how the mb line are voiced, i still see it as a distant third from the other two amps. just dont feel like the mb is even in the same class as those two other amps.

i've got a laundry list that might derail elmon's thread, but most of all, the control layout is sooo frustrating to me! i mean, why are the low and high mid freq knobs and their cut/boost knobs flipped?!?! why? just makes no sense to me, and really grates against my design inclinations. oi...

might sound like i'm bashing on mb stuff, but i do think the mb stuff is good for their price point, against offerings from GK, ampeg, eden's nemesis, fender, etc. i just dont quite put it in the same class as the epifani, TFB, or aguilar and ea gear.

[snowdan]

i totally second all tge VLE praise. i play in a hip hip &funk band, and this control gives my all the sounds i need from modern slap sounds through middy fingerstyle to synth-like dub bass within less than a second, and it even affects PA sound so the FOH guy has no hassle with my different sounds. also, there are no volume differences, so it's all controllable out front. great.

[Mr_Dave]

WHAT WHAT WHAT?!?!?!

[Alistair R]

I think I'll subscribe to this one! This will be good!

[KJung]

Interesting! I look forward to hearing your experiences on the gig. I've found through the years that heads with class D power amps and switching power supplies like the Walter Woods (and 800) get plenty loud and sound great. However, there has always been a lack of 'grunt and punch' in the low end that really doesn't become apparant until you get it in the mix.

The Thunderfunk is unique in that it is very lightweight, but has a traditional class A/B amp (or some version of that design) and a real toriodal power supply. The Epi 502 (and iAmp500/800) get around the issue creatively by using a class D amp but a large, traditional power supply. The Berg IP's seem to 'fix' this issue through lot's of special DSP processing, compression, etc.

That's what has amazed me about the TF over the couple years I've been using one. How the heck can that amp be so small, so light, but still use the traditional circuitry that many of us love (resulting in that classic warm but clean tone).

The Walter Woods and the AI stuff never seemed to generate the 'kick you in the pants' punch of these more traditionally designed amps IME. It will be interesting to hear if the MarkBass somehow found a way to emulate the kick of a more traditionally designed amp in that inexpensive and super lightweight package.

[Quadzilla]

I've had plenty of heads that sound kick a$$ here at home, only to sound "eh" out live. Same goes for basses and effects. Live is the real review in my book...

[Bassist30]

Originally Posted by KJung

Interesting! I look forward to hearing your experiences on the gig. I've found through the years that heads with class D power amps and switching power supplies like the Walter Woods (and 800) get plenty loud and sound great. However, there has always been a lack of 'grunt and punch' in the low end that really doesn't become apparant until you get it in the mix.

The Thunderfunk is unique in that it is very lightweight, but has a traditional class A/B amp (or some version of that design) and a real toriodal power supply. The Epi 502 (and iAmp500/800) get around the issue creatively by using a class D amp but a large, traditional power supply. The Berg IP's seem to 'fix' this issue through lot's of special DSP processing, compression, etc.

That's what has amazed me about the TF over the couple years I've been using one. How the heck can that amp be so small, so light, but still use the traditional circuitry that many of us love (resulting in that classic warm but clean tone).

The Walter Woods and the AI stuff never seemed to generate the 'kick you in the pants' punch of these more traditionally designed amps IME. It will be interesting to hear if the MarkBass somehow found a way to emulate the kick of a more traditionally designed amp in that inexpensive and super lightweight package.

I agree all the way. But in the future I think it will get better with these low weight amps. I just don't think it has gotten there yet but the TF sure is right in the mix. Maybe because it is more traditional in many ways.

[Sufenta]

I've been using my TA501 for about 3 weeks now and it really has performed. Using that cliche, but its true....my drummer has commented each time I've used it that my sound is way more defined and punchier (switching back to a SWR a few times). With my SR4, I use the tube compressor just a bit to tighten up that upper end zing. Other than that and a touch of VLE, the amp is set FLAT. So far, so pretty amazing.

[USAJO]

Preconceived notions. It's funny but something just won't let me buy the idea that the Markbass stuff is equal or better than Epifani or Thunderfunk. Is it the look of it? Who knows? I know these thoughts defy logic but it's how my mind works. I guess mostly it's the look of it. It looks like low end stuff to me.

[Reefer]

Originally Posted by Quadzilla

I've had plenty of heads that sound kick a$$ here at home, only to sound "eh" out live. Same goes for basses and effects. Live is the real review in my book...

I totally agree with that! I personally didn't care for the TF, Epi, or the MB when I took them out, even though they all sounded great in my bedroom.

There are so many variables when it comes to assesssing gear though it really just comes down to what works for each individual. I play strictly passive preCBS Jazz basses and the WW Ultra and AI Focus with my Bergs HT/EX stack have plenty of low end grunt and actually sound better than amps that are MUCH heavier(in fact I had such a good sound the past few gigs with my WW/Berg setup I don't even know why I'm looking in the amp section anymore). For someone else who may play active basses or is looking for something different in their tone my rig may not work and a TF or MB or something else may be more suitable. Although not my sound, it's good to have another powerful well priced light weight head available.

[ElMon]

I definitely wouldn't go so far as saying either of the 3 heads are better at all, because that would simply be a subjective impression. I was actually quite surprised in arriving with this decision. The first thing that really grabbed me was the scenario in which I heard my 'first impression' of the Markbass line. My buddy Phil was demo'ing the SD800 for a customer, running through a markbass 115 and a 210. Now, I was standing over in accessories, which at GC Oklahoma City is about 50 feet or so away from the bass room. On top of the distance, that was a particularly noisy day at GC, and yet still there was all this amazing punchy lowend coming at me, detailed and full. That turned my head especially because I worked at that exact GC for a year and never heard anything cut through the 'gee-tard whitenoise' like that. So I moseyed on over and was extremely suprised that all that sound was coming from such a small setup.

Also, any decision that I make in terms of gear comes from what my needs dictate. I love TB for its in-depth reviews and (mostly) straight forward and honest members. I"ve found a niche of guys here, including Bikeplate/Joker/Mikebass/Bowlus/Biker4Him, etc, who speak my language in terms of all things bass. You are the people who I seek out for intelligent responses and real-world experiences. But this is not to say that we all go for the same sound. At times, I've bought in to the gear-hubris on more than a few occasions, and therefore have had a rotating arsenal. I can point to any number of manufacturers that have had stellar reviews here on Talkbass that after owning myself do not begin to live up to the hype. But this is just to my ears. My sound needs are very simple as far as amps and basses are concerned-though I've spent WAY to much money and time in this process-and in the end, any tonal variations that I need for a gig are provided by my technique and attention to style variances. This is what I loved about Sadowsky basses. Their fundamental tone has worked for everything that I do, from Jazz/latin/fusion/rock/singer-songwriter/hip-hop. In fact, the only thing I ever have to change is right in those four knobs.

This realization has affected my choice in amps as well. I just need something that can get loud, can add a little bass or treble when needed, but that basically stays out of the way of my Sadowsky. The markbass wins out over the others for my setup because its flat tone is more to my liking and is a whole lot louder. YMMV. On the gig, we will see. As a side note, the reason that I got rid of first the TF and then later the UL502 was that they both did NOT work for my sound live, though the TF was markedly better. In fact, I went ahead and dumped my DB750 because of how much praise I had heard for the TF/Accugroove ElWhappo hookup. But ya know, that sound just didn't work for my needs. And when I got my Epifani cabs, I was blown away by how well they sounded live with my DB750 (which I actually bought BACK from Biker4Him), but was ultimately underwhelmed with the UL502 after the 'honeymoon period' wore off. Who knows, maybe the SD800mystique will wear off too? The SD800 just matches up perfectly with the UL410!!! It drives the cabinet more, and to my ears is much more full on the low B string due to the increased headroom. The pitch clarity from lowB chromatically up to E is just better to my ears.

Anyways, I will keep ya posted!!!!

[ElMon]

I might also add that I was extremely suprised to hear of Mike Winnen switching to Genz-Benz from Eden. I had tried a Genz-Benz 1200 through their 6X10 and found nothing to like about it for my needs. But I"m sure Mike gets a great sound on them, and I bet that its a whole different story through some Accugroove cabinets.
Another example of how one's style and sound dictate 99% of their gear choices (or should at least) as well as a testament to the fact that Sadowsky basses sound awesome through just about any amp setup I've tried. SWR, Ampeg, GK, GenzBenz, Markbass, Aguilar, Epifani, whatever.

[tombowlus]

Thanks for the detailed reviews and perspective, ElMon! I don't have the experience that you do with regard to these three heads, so I am definitely interested in what you (and others) have to say with regard to them.

Tom.