is there such a thing as a unsuitable cab?

[markdax]

Hiya,

I play ibanez 705sr (and a warwick fna jazzman) through a mesa boogie mpulse-360 head into a SWR 4x10 goliath III cab (700w @ 4ohms)
It was suggested to me that the cab isn't suited for the my head.
I was wondering if cabs can be mis matched to a head sonically speaking and with my current set-up if im getting the best out of my amp?
I like a good tight bottom end and clear mids to cut through the mix as my guitarist uses a PRS 7-string through a dual rectifier and mesa 4x12 cab.
Any thoughts?

[AMJBASS]

I would think that your head would be well suited to that cabinet. I used to have an MPulse Walkabout and played it through a Golliath III. Killer sounding rig. Some people like things to match. I say play what sounds good!

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by markdax

I was wondering if cabs can be mis matched to a head sonically speaking

It is possible, but determining that isn't a simple proposition.

I like a good tight bottom end and clear mids to cut through the mix as my guitarist uses a PRS 7-string through a dual rectifier and mesa 4x12 cab.
Any thoughts?

Yes, he should be using a 1x12. NO ONE needs a 4x12 for guitar. If he's the guy saying your cab isn't right his opinion is coming out of left field.

[IvanMike]

Cabs can be unsuitable if there is an impedance issue, such as an impedance mismatch when using a tube amp (there is a switch on the back of tube amps to select the appropriate impedance), or a cab that has too low of an impedance when using a SS amp (the SS amp should be marked with a minimum impedance).

However, in almost 100% of cases you aren't going to encounter an impedance problem when using just one cabinet - almost all bass cabs are 8 ohms or 4 ohms, & just about every SS amp can handle a 4 ohm minimum, and almost every tube amp can be selected to either.

Wattage wise it's easy to find a cabinet that has a smaller wattage handling capacity than a particular head can put out into that impedance, but as long as you're careful you can run it without damaging it. You can't damage a cab by "underpowering" it for the most part, so a low wattage head and a cab with a high wattage rating should be fine as well.

This leaves brand and voicing. IMO the idea that a particular combination is unsuitable based upon that is nonsense. Sure, you might run into a situation where a head has a very "bright" tone, and a particular cab is also rather "bright" and harsh sounding, so using them both produces a tone you don't like - (or any other tonal combination you can think of). But unsuitable? Garbage.

[IvanMike]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

Yes, he should be using a 1x12. NO ONE needs a 4x12 for guitar. If he's the guy saying your cab isn't right his opinion is coming out of left field.

HAHA! Thanks, Bill I didn't catch that part. My thoughts exactly.

[markdax]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

It is possible, but determining that isn't a simple proposition. Yes, he should be using a 1x12. NO ONE needs a 4x12 for guitar. If he's the guy saying your cab isn't right his opinion is coming out of left field.

Nah it wasn't my guitarist, he really rates my stack and doesn't want to me to consider changing it - im entertaining the possibility due to playing in two bands and wouldn't mind slightly less to lug around and less amp set-up tweaking between the groups and basses.
It was a reputable bass guitar shop owner i don't think it was a attempt to get me to buy any hardware but i thought it was an interesting thing to say so i thought it would be worth asking the the talkbass collective on their opinions

[lbwdog]

The thing is....how does it sound and perform for you?
If you like it, then it's perfectly suitable for you.

Some will say that a particular cab's inherent tone doesn't mate up well with a certain amp's characteristics, but that is just their opinion.

I've found my Goliath III to sound good with virtually any amp I've played through it.

[Mr. Foxen]

Originally Posted by lbwdog

The thing is....how does it sound and perform in the context of the band?

Fixed that. Sounded a bit like guitarist thinking before.

[Calaverasgrande]

I could see that maybe he meant the way the mids on the mesa head line up with the "hifi" voicing of the cab might make it tough to get a good sound. It seems to me that a lot of SWR/Eden stuff is built around that "Marcus" sound. I have heard guys pour on a painful amount of treble with those cabs!

Then there is also that even reputable shop owners have to sell gear.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by markdax

It was a reputable bass guitar shop owner i don't think it was a attempt to get me to buy any hardware but i thought it was an interesting thing to say so i thought it would be worth asking the the talkbass collective on their opinions

Some cabs work better with some amps and vis-versa. In some cases there can be gross differences between the capabilities of the cab versus amp, as in using a ten watt head with an 810 or a 500 watt head with a 110. But with mainstream middle of the road amps and cabs it's a pretty tough call to say that a particular amp and cab are unsuited to each other. The only circumstance that instantly comes to mind is a tube amp and a vented cab loaded with very low Q drivers. Most retailers would be very hard pressed to know what drivers are within a cab, let alone if they're very low Q, or for that matter what Q is.

[BigOldHarry]

Originally Posted by markdax

Hiya,

I play ibanez 705sr (and a warwick fna jazzman) through a mesa boogie mpulse-360 head into a SWR 4x10 goliath III cab (700w @ 4ohms)
It was suggested to me that the cab isn't suited for the my head.
I was wondering if cabs can be mis matched to a head sonically speaking and with my current set-up if im getting the best out of my amp?
I like a good tight bottom end and clear mids to cut through the mix as my guitarist uses a PRS 7-string through a dual rectifier and mesa 4x12 cab.
Any thoughts?

I've found that every head sounds a bit different through every cab, and vice-versa. An SWR 4x10 is a fine cab, though by its design has a more scooped sound. If you want more low mids and feel the need spend / schlep, get some 12"s. If you like your sound, then leave be!

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

NO ONE needs a 4x12 for guitar.

Disagree...


- georgestrings

[MuzikMan]

These days guitar players don't need those 4x12 boxes. A properly miced 1x12 sounds much better both on stage and FOH.

[Mr. Foxen]

The directional nature of a standard 4x12 is an asset if you use position to control feedback dynamics.

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by MuzikMan

These days guitar players don't need those 4x12 boxes. A properly miced 1x12 sounds much better both on stage and FOH.

Depends on the situation and genre - in a hard rock/metal band with a hard hitting drummer, and in a large club, hall, or outdoors, I don't think so...

AFAIK, half stacks are still pretty popular - so I'm probably not the only one that disagrees with Bill's blanket statement...


- georgestrings

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by georgestrings

Depends on the situation and genre - in a hard rock/metal band with a hard hitting drummer, and in a large club, hall, or outdoors, I don't think so...

AFAIK, half stacks are still pretty popular - so I'm probably not the only one that disagrees with Bill's blanket statement...


- georgestrings

In terms of output one twelve is all you need for any stage, and for that matter even most rooms without PA. IME most guitar players who use a 4x12 do so because their heros do. Then they can't get 'my sound' without cranking the bejesus out of the damn things, screwing up the works for all involved. Want to know the number one complaint of pro-touring sound men? 4x12s, because they can't balance them with the PA. I'm not talking bar bands, nor even mid-level acts, I'm talking about national and international acts in 10,000 plus seat venues. Using them for 100 seats? Ludicrous.

[markdax]

I agree with both sentiments;
In my covers band the drummer doesn't play as loud, both guitarists have 4x12s becuase the other one does, if you catch my drift the venues we play doesn't really require guitars being mic'd up.
With my other band the drummer is particularly loud, i mean realy loud, and thats a combination it seems of his brand of hardware and his playing style. So if we to play at a level equal to the drums we would be have turn up relatively loud, though i find that im more comfortable not being able to clearly hear myself on stage as i become more self aware and i can dig in bit more, and im happy to let the FOH do its job without me adding to the muck floating around on stage making the monitors useless.
As it stands i have a rehearsal room booked at a very well equipped studio next week so im going to hire a different cab and see if theres much difference, im going to do the same with a couple of brands of bass heads with my cab to really try and see if the grass is greener on the other side.

SOLSIKK | Free Music, Tour Dates, Photos, Videos <--- Thatsthe orginal band im currently playing with, our debut album is released May 2nd

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

In terms of output one twelve is all you need for any stage, and for that matter even most rooms without PA. IME most guitar players who use a 4x12 do so because their heros do. Then they can't get 'my sound' without cranking the bejesus out of the damn things, screwing up the works for all involved. Want to know the number one complaint of pro-touring sound men? 4x12s, because they can't balance them with the PA. I'm not talking bar bands, nor even mid-level acts, I'm talking about national and international acts in 10,000 plus seat venues. Using them for 100 seats? Ludicrous.

yeah, but there is the fact that using multiple drivers in a cab sounds better and fuller. so in that respect, even though it's not a perfect design, i can understand wanting to use a 412. but holy mother of pearl, why do they have to use 100w amps and crank them? they ought to just use a valve jr or something similar.

[NWB]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

In terms of output one twelve is all you need for any stage, and for that matter even most rooms without PA. IME most guitar players who use a 4x12 do so because their heros do. Then they can't get 'my sound' without cranking the bejesus out of the damn things, screwing up the works for all involved. Want to know the number one complaint of pro-touring sound men? 4x12s, because they can't balance them with the PA. I'm not talking bar bands, nor even mid-level acts, I'm talking about national and international acts in 10,000 plus seat venues. Using them for 100 seats? Ludicrous.

Bill, you are my hero.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

yeah, but there is the fact that using multiple drivers in a cab sounds better and fuller. so in that respect, even though it's not a perfect design, i can understand wanting to use a 412. but holy mother of pearl, why do they have to use 100w amps and crank them? they ought to just use a valve jr or something similar.

One sign of maturity, both physical and intellectual, is that all of the guitar players I work with now have gone to 1x12 combos. They've done so because geezers can't lift 4x12s, we don't drive vans, and we no longer have any need to impress gear groupies. It sounds a lot better too.