Things I don't like about the RC450.

[synterx]

Couldn't wait to get one. Got it. Don't like it all that much. Maybe you guys could help me like it more:

1. It's bigger than it looks - It's true. Having had only a GK MB2-500 and GB Shuttles, I wrongly expected this thing to be around the same...but it just looks and feels bigger than it should. Upside: Won't fall off the cab.

2. The metal edge that sticks out around the edge causes me 2 problems, when sitting on any cabs lower than eye level, I can't see the preset+mute buttons, or the tuner readout. Secondly, I can't use a right angle plug at all because of this design.

3. It really does sound "dark". I have to crank the treble and hi mids quite alot to get it about the same as my GK MB2 at flat settings. Which means when I do need to goose things, there isn't much room left. And, I now get way more string noise and zip.

4. No ground lift on the D.I. Otherwise full featured, but occasionally I actually use this feature on the GK. It this D.I. immune to loops? Might be, don't know.

5. It just doesn't sound "clear" to me, with EQ flat, no tubetone, no compression, it sounds muffled, not loud and clear. Is that on purpose?


I know there are other mega threads on this amp, but I just wanted to see if anyone agrees with these nits, and can offer some workarounds?

Otherwise, to the TB classifieds it must go.

I will say, it's a beautifully put together piece of gear.

[Rick Auricchio]

Originally Posted by synterx

2. The metal edge that sticks out around the edge causes me 2 problems, when sitting on any cabs lower than eye level, I can't see the preset+mute buttons, or the tuner readout.

True. I have a small wood "frame" I built for something else. This holds the amp at an angle so I can see the front panel. (If you have the footswitch, then tuner, mute and presets are on the switch.)

3. ...And, I now get way more string noise and zip.

Have you experimented with the center-frequencies for the EQ, especially the treble?

5. It just doesn't sound "clear" to me, with EQ flat, no tubetone, no compression, it sounds muffled, not loud and clear.

It is designed to somewhat emulate the Ampeg tone, which is not crisp and clear.

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by synterx

Couldn't wait to get one. Got it. Don't like it all that much. Maybe you guys could help me like it more:

1. It's bigger than it looks - It's true. Having had only a GK MB2-500 and GB Shuttles, I wrongly expected this thing to be around the same...but it just looks and feels bigger than it should. Upside: Won't fall off the cab.

2. The metal edge that sticks out around the edge causes me 2 problems, when sitting on any cabs lower than eye level, I can't see the preset+mute buttons, or the tuner readout. Secondly, I can't use a right angle plug at all because of this design.

3. It really does sound "dark". I have to crank the treble and hi mids quite alot to get it about the same as my GK MB2 at flat settings. Which means when I do need to goose things, there isn't much room left. And, I now get way more string noise and zip.

4. No ground lift on the D.I. Otherwise full featured, but occasionally I actually use this feature on the GK. It this D.I. immune to loops? Might be, don't know.

5. It just doesn't sound "clear" to me, with EQ flat, no tubetone, no compression, it sounds muffled, not loud and clear. Is that on purpose?


I know there are other mega threads on this amp, but I just wanted to see if anyone agrees with these nits, and can offer some workarounds?

Otherwise, to the TB classifieds it must go.

I will say, it's a beautifully put together piece of gear.

Have you tried Markbass yet?

[synterx]

I have not tried markbass yet. I found the GK to be "just right" and keep coming back to it. But I admit, the flashy lights, and builtin tuner/compressor finally got the best of me. I really, really want to like the RH. But man, it's just so expensive and I've learned over the years that if I'm not totally thrilled with something expensive, it eats away at me.

One thing is for sure, cosmetically, put the GK next to the RH450, and one looks like it was made in someones garage. It's what's inside that counts I guess.

At least I didn't pay full retail price, so I'll break even when I sell it. If I grew up on the Ampeg tone, I bet I'd fall in love with the sound. But since I haven't, been a Peavey T-Max, ProBass500, BAM guy before jumping on the "little is better" bandwagon. The Peavey's all sounded very clear, but dry, and that's what I've gravitated too.

I did try messing with the EQ points on the RH, but I found that unless I drastically cut or boost, they are kind of useless.

I'd like the ability to alter it's "flat" tone first, then mess with the eq points for when I need to correct for a room or situation. Silly really.

Thanks for the insights.

[Rick Auricchio]

Originally Posted by synterx

I'd like the ability to alter it's "flat" tone first, then mess with the eq points for when I need to correct for a room or situation. Silly really.

Not silly at all. Set the EQ centers where they make sense. Then set the EQ levels where it makes sense. Lock into a preset. At a gig, tweak a bit as necessary. Don't bother changing the EQ centers unless they're really off.

Note that what you hear at home vs. a gig tends to be quite different. Same EQ settings, somewhat different sound at gig volume.

[synterx]

The problem I had, was when I cranked the Hi, and hi-mid to get it a bit clearer sounding like my flat GK, It really pronounced the string noise and zip, but wasn't really all that clear. It became obvious that just cranking the eq, with or without moving the center point around, wasn't what I needed. The "booty" was nice, flat bass, and lo-mid was perfect. It's just everything midrange and up that just wasn't working. It does make sense that it is emulating an ampeg type sound. That's the feeling it had. My only experience with ampeg is through line 6 bass pod modeling, and the IK ampeg plugin. So that's not a fair comparison I guess.

[Rick Auricchio]

The RH450 has a fixed lo-pass filter that gradually rolls off above 5KHz, which may be part of what you're hearing.

[blendermassacre]

out of curiosity, what cabs are you playing through?

[BigOldHarry]

Ping my buddy No-Static about this amp. He had one for about one month and dumped it - - I played with it, heard him at a gig - I was very unimpressed. He replaced it with some mid-sized Markbass thing he really loves.

[synterx]

Originally Posted by blendermassacre

out of curiosity, what cabs are you playing through?

Just two, Genz NeoX-112 and 212T. I know these cabs very well, it's all I've used for hundreds of gigs in a row.

[::::BASSIST::::]

I was hoping this thread would kill my GAS for the rh450, but that 'no sparkle' tone you speak of is exactly what I like.

[Musicman20]

I wouldnt put the RH450 next to the Genz and GK in terms of tone for one second.

The problem is, for me I think the RH450 sounds quite 'normal' in terms of treble, and I owned a Trace Elliott for a long time! TE are pretty much well known for fairly sizzly highs if you want it.

I can also understand the build quality; the TC really looks stunning. What don't you like about the GK?

Size/weight wise - the RH450 is heavier than the LM3, but only by a few pounds. Im always a bit worried about anything really light and small as no doubt id be looking over my shoulder making sure its not hanging off the cabs. Saying that I worry about most lightweight amps. Size wise, the RH450 for me is spot on.

You can boost the treble quite a fair whack, but it wont 'sizzle' with treble, which is probably why I get on with it.

I can understand your frustration. I bought a Shuttle 9.0 and I had the same doubt, and that got sent back. Saying that, id still now like a micro by Genz.

[pasta4lnch]

Originally Posted by synterx

Couldn't wait to get one. Got it. Don't like it all that much. Maybe you guys could help me like it more:

1. It's bigger than it looks - It's true. Having had only a GK MB2-500 and GB Shuttles, I wrongly expected this thing to be around the same...but it just looks and feels bigger than it should. Upside: Won't fall off the cab.

2. The metal edge that sticks out around the edge causes me 2 problems, when sitting on any cabs lower than eye level, I can't see the preset+mute buttons, or the tuner readout. Secondly, I can't use a right angle plug at all because of this design.

I saw one for the 1st time at a local store yesterday. while I didn't have time to play it, I def agree w/ these two points.

it also looked/felt cheap to me . . . just my 1st impression. my lmII feels like I could toss it from my balcony and it'd be alright

still want to spend some time playing it though . . .

[aledeville]

Originally Posted by synterx

Just two, Genz NeoX-112 and 212T. I know these cabs very well, it's all I've used for hundreds of gigs in a row.

I played the RH450 last weekend with several cabs and it the sound only good with their own cabs. Really, I didn't wanted to believe it at first but after we changed the cabs again it really was clear. Funny.
But it looks like the TC cabs really are designed for this amp since you can connect three of their (what they call) 8 Ohm's.

The RH450 is nothing for me - just like it looks that it is nothing for you. Things like that happen, it's no shame and no one to blame.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by synterx

Couldn't wait to get one. Got it. Don't like it all that much. Maybe you guys could help me like it more:

1. It's bigger than it looks - It's true. Having had only a GK MB2-500 and GB Shuttles, I wrongly expected this thing to be around the same...but it just looks and feels bigger than it should. Upside: Won't fall off the cab.

2. The metal edge that sticks out around the edge causes me 2 problems, when sitting on any cabs lower than eye level, I can't see the preset+mute buttons, or the tuner readout. Secondly, I can't use a right angle plug at all because of this design.

3. It really does sound "dark". I have to crank the treble and hi mids quite alot to get it about the same as my GK MB2 at flat settings. Which means when I do need to goose things, there isn't much room left. And, I now get way more string noise and zip.

4. No ground lift on the D.I. Otherwise full featured, but occasionally I actually use this feature on the GK. It this D.I. immune to loops? Might be, don't know.

5. It just doesn't sound "clear" to me, with EQ flat, no tubetone, no compression, it sounds muffled, not loud and clear. Is that on purpose?


I know there are other mega threads on this amp, but I just wanted to see if anyone agrees with these nits, and can offer some workarounds?

Otherwise, to the TB classifieds it must go.

I will say, it's a beautifully put together piece of gear.

Totally different voicing from the GK... fatter, more mid punchy, warmer, versus the huge low end and super sizzly highs of the MB500. As has been posted a zillion times in the mega threads, the top end is rolled off purposefully at 5K to give the amp a more vintage vibe.

If you want something closer to the size of the MB500 with lower noise, higher reliability, and a tone that sits in between the RH450 and MB500 (i.e., brighter than the RH450 but punchier and warmer than the MB500), consider a Genz Benz Shuttle 9 or a Markbass F1 or F500.

If you like the build quality and feature set, the TC Staccato has a much more modern, wide, deeper, sizzly voicing, although still not as over the top as the MB500.

Edit: No reason for a ground lift on the RH450. It's a 'floating' design (or whatever that is called). You won't have any problems there.

[KJung]

To the OP, here's a clip I made yesterday for another TBer interested in hearing the RH450 with one of my TecAmp cabs.

The EQ is just a touch of bass boost, and a bit of treble boost with the default shelving moved up to around 4K.

Again very different from the 'boom and sizzle' of the little GK head, of course, but this head just is wonderful for those with, for example, alder/RW J Basses with nickels, or PBasses. It is punchy, growly and a bit grindy (in a more organic, vintage way than your GK).

Again, not better or worse, but totally different. Again, the Shuttle 9, the Markbass LMIII and F500, etc. sit kind of in-between those two voicings.

http://www.youtube.com/Kjungbass#p/a/u/0/Tw9T4W-ahLc

[wateroftyne]

To the OP - without wanting to sound harsh, I think you should have researched the amp a little more before pulling the trigger...!

FWIW, it's perfect for me. I don't do sparkle.

[Boombass76]

Like the OP, I have used GK for many years. Unfortunately, I think that their new stuff is totally different from the good old RB400 and RB2000 amps.

So, after having tried out the new RB2001, RB700, etc. I sold them off and went for Aguilar for a while. Nice, but a bit heavy (DB750).

So, I have used a Markbass F500 for the last year or so. However, I did try the RH450 in stores last year, but only got one last week. I must say that I have never heard my Epi cabs sound that good... It is not the most 'polite' amp around, but the important thing for me is that it seems to cut through the mix extremely well!

About the top end, you should really check out fellow TB'er Kjung's video demonstrating how to make the RH450 sound pretty much like a Markbass F1/F500:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Kjungbass#p/u/6/zpsx1v3fRQ0

I like top end, too, but not more than what the RH450 is capable of delivering. So far, I have tried it with Epi UL410 and UL112 cabs, but next week I get the RS210 and RS212 cabs, so I am very excited about trying out the RH450 with the cabs it was intended to drive :-)

[naturalkinds]

4. No ground lift on the D.I. Otherwise full featured, but occasionally I actually use this feature on the GK. It this D.I. immune to loops? Might be, don't know.

I find this an intolerable feature on professional gear. My TecAmp amplifier had this same sort of feature, and I had never had such difficulty getting a quiet DI signal. They call it 'soft grounding', not sure if it works on the same principle as the RH450. I accept that the electrostatic I heard in some rooms might have been attributable to lousy power outlets, but one thing is sure: without a ground switch, it is difficulty to identify the locus of the problem.

Edit: No reason for a ground lift on the RH450. It's a 'floating' design (or whatever that is called). You won't have any problems there.

Again, not sure this is true, Ken. One 'reason' -- which I think the OP is alluding to -- is that it helps you identify the source of noise in your signal chain. IMO, these soft grounding devices are chintzy, and I'm not surprised to see them absent in a number of the highest end studio gear pieces.

[naturalkinds]

With that said, let me say in favour of the RH450 that I loved it when I demoed it in a store a few months ago!