Thoughts On Transparent/uncoloring Amps

randysmojo · #1 11-15-2011, 02:12 PM

I am trying to find an amp that does not color tone too much. I have an Ampeg SVT-3pro and it just does not get a tone that I really like out of it. Very warm sounding, but seems to change the tone too much. I'm just seeing what you other guys feel are good amps for not coloring the tone much to get an idea of what amps i should be checking out. Acoustic, Gallien Krueger, Hartke, Carvin, Genz Benz, Epifani, others.....

Just seeing what opinions are of different amps so I can get a better idea of what to look for. I'm hoping to find something that is equal value to the old SVT-3pro I have so I might be able to find someone to trade me straight across. I know I got some really good tones out of a shuttle 6.0, but what else should I try?

Philonius · #2 11-15-2011, 02:23 PM

The Acoustic Image amps are supposed to be transparent. Upright guys like them, mainly for that reason, or so I'm told.

KJung · #3 11-15-2011, 03:24 PM

You will find that all amps have their own sound. However, some are a bit more neutral than others. Your SVTIII would be at the extreme 'colored' end of the continuum to my ear, so almost any other amp is going to sound a bit more pure, with lower levels of midrange distortion, and more true low end and higher output.

Over the years, I'm finding that the frequency range of the amp, combined with the level of 'midrange distortion' (i.e., warmth) has much more to do with the tonal perceptions of the amp than any baked in EQ curve.

The most 'neutral' amp I've found that has a nice, warm, 'musicality' to it (i.e., it sounds like a bass amp, not like plugging into a PA power amp... that sort of 'sterile' sound) is the Markbass LMIII. The range is usable (i.e., plenty of real low end and upper treble, but not to the point of causing massive pistoning of the drivers, or lots of hiss up top. That would be my call, and the fact that the amp is reasonably flat right out of the box (i.e., with the filters off and the EQ at noon) is an added bonus.

The Markbass F500 is a bit less extended down low, and has more upper mid presence with a bit more 'warmth/grind' in those upper mids. However, it is still relatively neutral and sounds a bit more immediate given its voicing.

Lots of other heads sound fantastic, but the LMIII seems to be the category leader for me if you are looking for a relatively neutral voicing, but not a totally hi fi, pure, super wide sort of tone.

IMO and IME!

**JxBass** · #4 11-15-2011, 04:02 PM

I too have been on the search for some time for the most uncolored amp I could find. My LMII was my go-to amp for some time, a real beauty as Ken mentions. My high point to date is my Acoustic Image Clarus, very pure and smooth across the spectrum, IMHO.

KJung · #5 11-15-2011, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JxBass

I too have been on the search for some time for the most uncolored amp I could find. My LMII was my go-to amp for some time, a real beauty as Ken mentions. My high point to date is my Acoustic Image Clarus, very pure and smooth across the spectrum, IMHO.

The AI stuff is very pure also... maybe a little too 'clean' for me personally, but very balanced and even more 'uncolored' than the LMII/III in an absolute sense.

+1

JimmyM · #6 11-15-2011, 05:59 PM

You guys know they have knobs, right?

KJung · #7 11-15-2011, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

You guys know they have knobs, right?

Knobs only change the EQ curve, which is only a very small part of an amp sounding transparent and neutral.

As you most likely know, no amount of knob twisting will make one amp sound exactly like another, and in many cases, no amount of knob twisting will make one amp sound anything like another.

grendle · #8 11-15-2011, 06:15 PM

Ampeg Definatly has their own tone.

Hartke imo, is as close to a transparent non coloring amp as you can get.
A stock 3500 is pretty much just that, your bass uncolored , amplified. The newer L series have a bit more color to them .

Most mfr's do try for a signature type of tone.

**JxBass** · #9 11-15-2011, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

You guys know they have knobs, right?

Are they the round things on the front?

BurningSkies · #10 11-15-2011, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grendle

Ampeg Definatly has their own tone.

Hartke imo, is as close to a transparent non coloring amp as you can get.
A stock 3500 is pretty much just that, your bass uncolored , amplified. The newer L series have a bit more color to them .

Most mfr's do try for a signature type of tone.

I have a 3500 and love it dearly...but it's nowhere near flat sounding. It has some definite juice in the lower mids.

Sartori · #11 11-15-2011, 07:02 PM

Transparent's not my thing, but Markbass amps seem to have a pretty even, balanced sound with not much coloration.

JimmyM · #12 11-15-2011, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJung

Knobs only change the EQ curve, which is only a very small part of an amp sounding transparent and neutral.

As you most likely know, no amount of knob twisting will make one amp sound exactly like another, and in many cases, no amount of knob twisting will make one amp sound anything like another.

And yet, you sound the same in all your Youtube vids

There's EQ and distortion...the 3 Pro will run clean if you want no problem, so then there's EQ, which it has plenty of. Now I totally get that people have preferences and there might be something they can do with one rig they can't do with another, like if one's totally clean and they can't get distortion. But if you want near flat response out of a 3 Pro, you can get it if you move knobs.

bobcruz · #13 11-15-2011, 08:24 PM

Don't overlook Eden amps--they're mostly flat in response with enhance turned off and all EQ knobs at noon, with only a very helpful baked-in high-pass filter (about 24 dB per octave from 40 Hz down) and various low-pass filters above the 10-14 kHz range, as you can see from the preamp frequency response plots in this thread: Eden Electronics Forum - Not all Edens are the same: Eden WT-400 vs WT-800.

Gearhead17 · #14 11-15-2011, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randysmojo

I am trying to find an amp that does not color tone too much. I have an Ampeg SVT-3pro and it just does not get a tone that I really like out of it. Very warm sounding, but seems to change the tone too much. I'm just seeing what you other guys feel are good amps for not coloring the tone much to get an idea of what amps i should be checking out. Acoustic, Gallien Krueger, Hartke, Carvin, Genz Benz, Epifani, others.....

Just seeing what opinions are of different amps so I can get a better idea of what to look for. I'm hoping to find something that is equal value to the old SVT-3pro I have so I might be able to find someone to trade me straight across. I know I got some really good tones out of a shuttle 6.0, but what else should I try?

Try the Carvin BX1500. No over hyped low end, midrange sounds sweet and not nasally, high end is clear. It's closer to transparent than most and is really flexible tone wise. I feel I get more of the sound of my bass through this head - minimal tone tweaking and I get what I want. Definitely not as colored as Ampeg, GK, Mesa and so on. With other heads and every Ampeg head, I tend to fight the controls. I want a "different" sound and by time I get it, I have turned the knobs and wasted so much time doing so. With the Carvin, I hear more of my bass and nothing is heavily boosted from the get go - so, much less fighting to get the sound I want.

grendle · #15 11-15-2011, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BurningSkies

I have a 3500 and love it dearly...but it's nowhere near flat sounding. It has some definite juice in the lower mids.

Not flat, but transparent.

If you and your bass don't sound good or if you do , your definitely gonna hear every bit of it through the hartke. More so I think than through a lot of other amps. Plug into a genz, swr, eden, ampeg, mark, with just about any bass and you kind of have an idea of what it's gonna sound like with the tone of the amp. The Hartke just sounds like you.

KJung · #16 11-16-2011, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

And yet, you sound the same in all your Youtube vids

There's EQ and distortion...the 3 Pro will run clean if you want no problem, so then there's EQ, which it has plenty of. Now I totally get that people have preferences and there might be something they can do with one rig they can't do with another, like if one's totally clean and they can't get distortion. But if you want near flat response out of a 3 Pro, you can get it if you move knobs.

IMO and IME, nope on the IIIPro. On the Youtube clips, if you think the TecAmp Puma, the RH450 and the Streamliner all sound the same (or even the LMII and F1, after EQing), then I agree, you can choose any amp you want at random and turn a frew knobs and be happy!

Also, the 'distortion' I'm talking about is not the 'overdrive the preamp' sort of thing, but rather the nature/voicing/design of the preamp and the overall tone baked into the amp.

fokof · #17 11-16-2011, 06:30 AM

After starting to look for uncolored monitoring a while ago ,I ended up with PA stuff.

I use a RCF ART310a and a RCF902as sub
1350watts , 3 way active , 98 pounds total.

MobileMe Gallery

JimmyM · #18 11-16-2011, 08:34 AM

I owned a 3 Pro for 5 years...I know what it can do.

craig.p · #19 11-16-2011, 08:48 AM

I agree with Gearhead 17. If you want transparent, you have to put Carvin on your short list.

I also agree with the concept of PA gear. Cheap mic preamp -> big sled power amp -> two Avatar 212 cabs is one of my larger rigs. Not one tone control in the entire signal chain.

Wes Whitmore · #20 11-16-2011, 08:49 AM

Have you thought of picking up a "clean" preamp/DI pedal (LR Baggs, Fishman Bass DI, etc), and just plugging into the efx return of the 3pro? That would allow you to try the clean thing without getting rid of a great amp. You bass might even be hot enough to plug into the return without the preamp pedal just to see if you like it, but you won't have any extra EQ. Just a thought.
Wes