Thrashed Speakers?

[shutupdonnie]

I've been running a GK 1001RB into an 8ohm avatar 4x10neo cabinet for a few years now (wow, i just realized it's been that long) and recently I've noticed that I lost a bit of low end, and the speakers get kind of farty at higher volumes. Mind you, this rig has seen probably 300 shows and thousands of hours of full volume band practice.

It seems to me (and perhaps this is an erroneous assumption) that a cabinet rated for 1000W RMS (2000W peak) should have no trouble handling the 450W my head is putting out at 8ohm, or the 350W that it's getting when I also run it with my carvin RL118 cabinet (also 8ohm). I recently added a DBX 166xl and a BBE 482i into the effects loop, and that has restored a bit of the low end, but it's nothing like the way it used to be.

So I guess my question is : Conservatively, these speakers have about 5000 hours on them. What is the reasonable life expectancy of these speakers and are mine just at the end of their days? I could get them re-coned for about $60 each, I can buy new ones for $110 each, totalling $440 + shipping, or I can get a brand new cabinet from avatar for about the same price. I know there are some extremely knowledgeable guys that post here. Any input is appreciated.

[billfitzmaurice]

Make sure that the driver attachment screws haven't worked loose.

[gumtownbassman]

check no air is escaping , like around the cone dust caps.
Under powering speakers is a good way to fry there more so than too much amp power.
Using your amp past it's limit will only amplify DC current through your speakers, the signal rounded tops (of it's sine wave) become flattened to the point of being nearly pure DC voltage, which cooks speaker voice coils.

[THORRR]

You should just call Dave at Avatar -

He's a straight shooter and will tell you exactly what you want to know.

Then you can share the knowledge with the rest of us.

[shutupdonnie]

Speakers are in good condition, cosmetically, as in the dust caps and such. Similarly, the speaker baskets are attached firmly to the cabinet. As for "underpowering" the speakers; I don't turn my amp up past halfway, so as to prevent it from clipping or "using it past its limit" as you put it, so I don't think that is the problem either.

[BassIan]

Originally Posted by gumtownbassman

check no air is escaping , like around the cone dust caps.
Under powering speakers is a good way to fry there more so than too much amp power.
Using your amp past it's limit will only amplify DC current through your speakers, the signal rounded tops (of it's sine wave) become flattened to the point of being nearly pure DC voltage, which cooks speaker voice coils.

Please be careful with this completely incorrect notion about clipping and amplifiers. Clipping of any amplifier stage does not ever create a DC output signal. Even if it did, DC does not inherently damage or "cook" voice coils. If it did, the 9v battery test for polarity checking would be a disaster. An amplifier that generates DC is severely damaged and won't likely be able to generate audio pleasantly.

There are two ways to kill a driver while it's operating. First is to overheat it by sending MORE than its rated power. In this case, the voice coil gets too hot. Short (milliseconds) bursts of more than rated power don't have enough energy to heat the coil sufficiently for this to happen.

The second way to damage a driver is overexcursion; a mechanical failure. This can happen at power levels well below the driver's thermal rating. But this depends on enclosure and driver design parameters as well. Again, nothing to do with clipping, or DC.

Your other suggestion to check for leaks is a good one.

As for the OP, drivers do wear, but so do our ears and tastes. A driver will undergo some drift of mechanical parameters as it is used, which relates to its response to enclosure tuning. However, is it possible that your tastes or ears have changed?

[shutupdonnie]

Originally Posted by BassIan

As for the OP, drivers do wear, but so do our ears and tastes. A driver will undergo some drift of mechanical parameters as it is used, which relates to its response to enclosure tuning. However, is it possible that your tastes or ears have changed?

I noticed a bit of a "break in" period with the speakers for sure, after which, the cab had even more deep, resonant lows, and tight, punchy mids which delighted me. Lately though, it seems like some of the low end has disappeared, and the signal sounds distorted once the volume gets cranked a little bit. I still have tons of midrange, which is great but it's just not hitting as hard as it used to in the low frequency department.

[Bass_Pounder]

Originally Posted by shutupdonnie

It seems to me (and perhaps this is an erroneous assumption) that a cabinet rated for 1000W RMS (2000W peak) should have no trouble handling the 450W my head is putting out at 8ohm, or the 350W that it's getting when I also run it with my carvin RL118 cabinet (also 8ohm).

Yes, it is an erroneous assumption. Forget peak, it means nothing. The RMS rating is also only the point at which the voice coil will fry given a specific test signal.

Most speakers run out of gas and hit their mechanical limits at around half their rated power. Depending on how severe you run your EQ, you very well could have caused damage to the speakers. Look around the outer edges of your speakers. If you see creases, your speakers are toast. They will sound fine at low volume, but fart out real bad when given any juice.

Originally Posted by gumtownbassman

Under powering speakers is a good way to fry there more so than too much amp power.
Using your amp past it's limit will only amplify DC current through your speakers, the signal rounded tops (of it's sine wave) become flattened to the point of being nearly pure DC voltage, which cooks speaker voice coils.

Please disregard this information as it is absolutely incorrect.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by gumtownbassman

Under powering speakers is a good way to fry there more so than too much amp power.
Using your amp past it's limit will only amplify DC current through your speakers, the signal rounded tops (of it's sine wave) become flattened to the point of being nearly pure DC voltage, which cooks speaker voice coils.

[craig.p]

Donnie, back to your question. If it were my cab, I'd get all four reconed, as long as they're going to be reconed exactly as the originals, which may have been a custom OEM design done by Eminence for Avatar. I'd start by calling Avatar and asking them who can do the recone to spec.

[greenboy]

Originally Posted by gumtownbassman

Under powering speakers is a good way to fry there more so than too much amp power.
Using your amp past it's limit will only amplify DC current through your speakers, the signal rounded tops (of it's sine wave) become flattened to the point of being nearly pure DC voltage, which cooks speaker voice coils.

Just when you think you can breathe easy, another one comes along.

[jnewmark]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

Oh my God, I just spit out my coffee !

[BassIan]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

How is it that this so perfectly nails the sinking feeling after reading that?

I too spit coffee.