Thunderfunk 750a vs Walkabout vs DB750

[KJung]

Originally Posted by gregbackstrom

With the very light-weight rigs that you favor, you really are limited to "4 ohms worth" of cabinets or a dual mono rig. In my case, 2 ohm capability was a factor in my purchase of the "older-school" TFB750-A (and now its successor, the 800B-2), and it operates flawlessly at 2 ohms without excessive heat buildup or discernible increase in distortion. Modern heat management methods mitigate the risk of low impedance operation. (Or ANY operation, as Mesa recently had to relearn with their Carbine-series amps.)

As you say, no big deal. It's nice to have SO MANY choices today.

+1 I think the new TF800 was actually optimized a bit more to run at 2ohms from what I understand. Runs cooler from reports. All good stuff.

[Bassist30]

Originally Posted by gregbackstrom

With the very light-weight rigs that you favor, you really are limited to "4 ohms worth" of cabinets or a dual mono rig. In my case, 2 ohm capability was a factor in my purchase of the "older-school" TFB750-A (and now its successor, the 800B-2), and it operates flawlessly at 2 ohms without excessive heat buildup or discernible increase in distortion. Modern heat management methods mitigate the risk of low impedance operation. (Or ANY operation, as Mesa recently had to relearn with their Carbine-series amps.)

As you say, no big deal. It's nice to have SO MANY choices today.

Dave can also update the amp to be a lot like the 800. The amp runs about 20 degrees less but like he said before there is no danger and like you said it isn't all that hot either. I have not run it at 2 ohms often but I have with no problems whats so ever.

[DrumsAndBass]

Originally Posted by KJung

Also, to the OP, remember, the TF750A doesn't really put out more power than the TF550b (the '750' is the 2ohm operation). The 4ohm output of the TF550b and TF750a is pretty similar (around 80watts difference 550 versus 630.... trivial). The main difference is the larger power supply, which eliminates some of the quashing/compression of the low end of the TF550b when pushed (with some actually like quite a bit).

In many, many direct A/B's of, for example, the TF750a and various 500 watt micro's like the Markbass F500), the maximum volume and low end was very, very similar. It is again better to thing of the TF750a as a head in the 500-600 watt power rating category (which it is).

The DB750 will BURY the TF750a IF you have enough speaker cab/drivers to actually make use of the additional real power (you won't really notice with a single 40hm 410).

I would again (IF you dump the DB750) try to get a TH500 out on a few gigs, and also spend time understanding the EQ/drive/gain interaction, which is VERY different from the other heads you are using at the moment. With the small, high efficiency cabs that you are using, you can get VERY close to the DB750 tone on the gig with the TH500.. quite amazing actually. Yes, the top end isn't as sweet when sitting at home, but on the gig, it actually comes through more articulately, and that wonderful semi-parametric mid control is FAR supperior to the single fixed mid control of the DB750. IMO. The TH500 is a bit more gritty and grunty than the TF750a for sure, but it will AT LEAST produce identical volume, and actually a bigger low end down low in a 4 pound, high quality format that runs very cool and is rock solid reliable. IMO and IME.

KJung and others,

Would the DB 750 or 751 bury a TFB-800 B2 ? Would it take an 810 or 412 cab to get the extra power out of the DB 750 or 751? I'd like to know because I'm amidst comparing the DB 751 with the TFB-800 B2 for my fEARful 1515/66 cab - I use a 4 ohm load most of the time. Also, how does that TFunk amp get so much 4 ohm power and be about 1/2 the weight of the Aguilar DB 751?

[michricker]

I'm in the same dilemma thus the reason for starting this post. After spending some more time with the DB and tf750, they are very different in dynamics and tone. The thunderfunk reminds me of a super little mark iii. Similar tone and feel but more power and tonal control. Definately more on the solid state feel and tone side than the db. Has some warmth due to its analog power amp. It is what the lm800 should have been but wasn't. I really like it since I gigged a lmii for 5yrs and wanted these features. The thunderfunk is very simply and high quality in construction. You could fix yourself with a little electronics experience. Both I'm trying through a berhs410 4ohm cab.

The DB750 will definitely out heft a tf750 or 800, I'm sure. Two 810s and a 750 would be like Zeus. The thunder funks would be close but loose steam earlier especially if you boost the bass. Why do we need this sort of power??? Unless heavy metal or it just looks cool on stage. I do admit that power is addicting thus the reason I still have a db750 and its my second one!

If I was going to be willing to haul major weight heads, it would be none of these choices. It would be an SVT for sure. I played a couple back lines this summer with SVT rigs and forgot how really awesome they are. But that's my real draw back with the db750. I get tired of lugging 50 to 80lb heads around. The Thunderfunk at 20lbs actually feels lighter due to its form factor and side handle. The class D micro amps just don't do it for me after trying numerous new models.

The thunderfunk will be the more versatile of choices ime. Even though I have not gigged mine yet I have experience with the type of tone it produces and it works great for most types of gigs. Small jazz with a 112 to using an 810 at a classic rock gig. My DB750 which I have gigged considerably can be boomy/muddy with some environments. There is little eq to adjust at the gig.

[gregbackstrom]

Originally Posted by DrumsAndBass

KJung and others,

Would the DB 750 or 751 bury a TFB-800 B2 ? Would it take an 810 or 412 cab to get the extra power out of the DB 750 or 751? I'd like to know because I'm amidst comparing the DB 751 with the TFB-800 B2 for my fEARful 1515/66 cab - I use a 4 ohm load most of the time. Also, how does that TFunk amp get so much 4 ohm power and be about 1/2 the weight of the Aguilar DB 751?

Based on my experience with the TFB800-B2 and a fEARful 1212/6/1, either of these amps will drive your fEARful cabinet to ear-splitting levels. But these two amps do not sound alike. If you like the sound of the DB750/751, just get one and be happy! IME, the Aguilar will give you an overall darker sound than the Thunderfunk, with tremendous low-mid punch. On the other hand, the Thunderfunk, with its four-band parametric EQ, enhance control and timbre control, is much more flexible.

Something to bear in mind when comparing these amps. The DB750/751 has a bigger power supply, twice the output transistors, weighs twice as much and typically costs $500 more "on the street." Yes, you can get louder with the Aguilar, but you pay a price for doing it!

Only you know if you need that much volume, and if that tone is for you. For me, too inflexible and too heavy.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by gregbackstrom

Based on my experience with the TFB800-B2 and a fEARful 1212/6/1, either of these amps will drive your fEARful cabinet to ear-splitting levels. But these two amps do not sound alike. If you like the sound of the DB750/751, just get one and be happy! IME, the Aguilar will give you an overall darker sound than the Thunderfunk, with tremendous low-mid punch. On the other hand, the Thunderfunk, with its four-band parametric EQ, enhance control and timbre control, is much more flexible.

Something to bear in mind when comparing these amps. The DB750/751 has a bigger power supply, twice the output transistors, weighs twice as much and typically costs $500 more "on the street." Yes, you can get louder with the Aguilar, but you pay a price for doing it!

Only you know if you need that much volume, and if that tone is for you. For me, too inflexible and too heavy.

That about sums it up. With the fEARFul cabs, I would pick the Thunderfunk in a second, since the extra EQ is often needed to sculpt those kind of PA sounding cabs into a punchy, smooth backline tone. Again the Thunderfunk 750a puts out 630 watts at 4ohms. That should work fine with the 1515/66, but that cab can easily handle and use almost twice the power. As stated above, the 1515/66's are 'moderately efficient', so that head will not push that cab to full performance. It will sound good and be plenty loud though. I would be concerned with that cab that the DB750 would sound a bit tuby and flubby, but have never tried that exact combination.

[Bassist30]

Originally Posted by DrumsAndBass

KJung and others,

Would the DB 750 or 751 bury a TFB-800 B2 ? Would it take an 810 or 412 cab to get the extra power out of the DB 750 or 751? I'd like to know because I'm amidst comparing the DB 751 with the TFB-800 B2 for my fEARful 1515/66 cab - I use a 4 ohm load most of the time. Also, how does that TFunk amp get so much 4 ohm power and be about 1/2 the weight of the Aguilar DB 751?

You should check out some of the other Thunderfunk threads where the company talks about watts and what it really means. Like Dave said if you want to double the volume from 550 watts you need 5,500 watts. There is distortion levels, power rated at what level/frequency? etc also must be considered. The 750A or 800 B2 will be fine. Its clean power and when you play it live it cuts through beautifully. A very good amp as well is the DB 750 or 751. Is it louder than the DB751 no but pretty close. It wont bury it but yes the DB751 is louder. But I like the tonal possibilities on the Thunderfunk.
As far as why one is 1/2 the weight is design. One is made as a Hybrid and the other is all Solid State. Parts vary to compensate for the design. Never heard the fEARFUL 1515/66 but it must sound massive and I can see why you are worried if the Thunderfunk would power that. But I wouldn't worry I feel it will impress you. I had used the whappo Jr and the Tri 12L and it was very loud. Yes it went down to 2 ohms but it was clean and loud. But it all comes down to what you like. I can't say you will like the sound of one over the other. But if weight is an issue and volume. The TF750 or 800 B2 will be fine with that setup, Im sure.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Bassist30

You should check out some of the other Thunderfunk threads where the company talks about watts and what it really means. Like Dave said if you want to double the volume from 550 watts you need 5,500 watts. There is distortion levels etc that also must be considered. The 750A or 800 B2 will be fine. Its clean power and when you play it live it cuts through beautifully. A very good amp as well is the DB 750 or 751. Is it louder than the DB751 no but pretty close. It wont bury it but yes the DB751 is louder. But I like the tonal possibilities on the Thunderfunk.
As far as why one is 1/2 the weight is design. One is made as a Hybrid and the other is all Solid State. Parts vary to compensate for the design.

Don't get caught up in the concept of needing 10 times the power to 'double' the volume. The concept of doubling the volume is kind of a red herring. A bit more power can result in a VERY noticeable increase in volume if the cab can use the power. The idea that somehow 'doubling the volume' is in any way the mimimum threshold for 'a meaningful increase in volume' is quite misleading.

However, most of the impact of increased power and the ability of a power supply to deliver clean, open power increases at transient peaks is very real, and a bit more power can be the difference between a compressed low end and a real, deep, open low end. If you get a couple/few db increase in overall volume while also obtaining an open low end, then that is just a bonus.

One of the signature tones of the old TF550b was its relatively underspec'd power supply that resulted in that compressed, tight, low end that was part of that amp's signature tone. The TF750's primary difference is a larger power supply that doesn't clamp as much as the previous designs, which is why the TF750's actual max volume (and power rating at 4ohms) is similar to the old TF550, but the low end is 'bigger and less compressed' on the low end (which interestingly, some TF fans didn't dig versus the more mid present and tight TF550).

Regarding the weight of the DB750, and also the significant more 'slam' down low, that is a direct result of the HUGE toriodal power supply in the DB750. Massive power supply that allows for very open, non compressed low end at high volumes. The 'hybrid' doesn't really add size or weight versus the pure SS (e.g., the 4 pound GK MB500Fusion has three 12ax7's in the preamp section).

Again, all good stuff which sounds and performs quite diffently.

IMO and lots of IME on this one

[Bassist30]

Originally Posted by KJung

Don't get caught up in the concept of needing 10 times the power to 'double' the volume. The concept of doubling the volume is kind of a red herring. A bit more power can result in a VERY noticeable increase in volume if the cab can use the power. The idea that somehow 'doubling the volume' is in any way the mimimum threshold for 'a meaningful increase in volume' is quite misleading.

However, most of the impact of increased power and the ability of a power supply to deliver clean, open power increases at transient peaks is very real, and a bit more power can be the difference between a compressed low end and a real, deep, open low end. If you get a couple/few db increase in overall volume while also obtaining an open low end, then that is just a bonus.

One of the signature tones of the old TF550b was its relatively underspec'd power supply that resulted in that compressed, tight, low end that was part of that amp's signature tone. The TF750's primary difference is a larger power supply that doesn't clamp as much as the previous designs, which is why the TF750's actual max volume (and power rating at 4ohms) is similar to the old TF550, but the low end is 'bigger and less compressed' on the low end (which interestingly, some TF fans didn't dig versus the more mid present and tight TF550).

Regarding the weight of the DB750, and also the significant more 'slam' down low, that is a direct result of the HUGE toriodal power supply in the DB750. Massive power supply that allows for very open, non compressed low end at high volumes. The 'hybrid' doesn't really add size or weight versus the pure SS (e.g., the 4 pound GK MB500Fusion has three 12ax7's in the preamp section).

Again, all good stuff which sounds and performs quite diffently.

IMO and lots of IME on this one

Yes Kjung and many amps have tubes that are light and heavy amps to. All I am trying say is by design to compensate as one is a hybrid and the other is SS. It was Aguilar which design his hybrid and to design it the way he did he used parts that may or may not been heavy, What ever.........But being I did have the DB 750 (very recently) for a short time and also have the TF 750 (and the GK fusion 500) I wanted to compare. So getting back to what he wanted to know. The Aguilar 750 will not bury the TF 750 or 800 B2.
The more power of the 750 is not the reason for a lesser clamped bottom. For those who posted there concerns with fEARFUL, Thunderfunk and Aguilar When dave gets back from chicago all those who are seeking knowledge of the Thunderfunk I would email, call or use other means to get a hold of him as he can explain very well the designs and what it takes to make proper judgements as to reasons for his Ratings and amp weight. Also, Aguilar I am sure is not afraid to discuss he amps and design. In fact Marco who works for Aguilar also had worked for Jimmy ( Alleva Coppolo) is very knowlegeable and one of the nicest guys there is, I sure would answer all your questions.

[michricker]

Well the show down for me is going be be this week, just got a new LM Tube in the mail today. The two weak contenders will be sold off! JK, all these heads are strong in there own way is the problem, but will have to sell two financially.

All through a Berg HS410, with a 64 Jazz bass and a MTD535 also with muscians on guitar and drums to get a feel for how they handle mix/dynamics:

Ratings to be used 1 to 10 scale, 1 being worst, 10 best for the following categories:

Tone
Dynamics/volume
Versitility of Tone Options (Jazz gig to Heavy Metal?)
Portability
Recording Features
Simplicity/Gig friendly Features
Build Quality/Components Used/Service/Warranty

Contestant 1). The mighty Thunderfunk 750a - phone/line out still broke but working with Dave hopefully next week to figure out how to fix! Want that headphone feature to use for late night practice - the others don't have this.

Contestant 2). Walkabout - still a contendender IMO with such a great organic midrange. Could end up being number one for tone, but does not have the heft/volume of the others. we will see

Contestant 3). Markbass LM Tube - tried the LM 800 Tube with the class D power, hated it. This has the great analog power plus the dual output, mute, ect. which I think I'll dig. There is a huge difference between the analog and digital IME at least in the markbass line for tone/dynamics...I greatly prefer analog...

Contestant 4). Aguilar DB750 with Telefunken and NOS upgrades. Bit old mean lead sled, but so cool in its own way with adictive power and slam to the dynamics.

Goal will be to keep two. One for the modern side and one for the old school tubey side since I play both styles of gigs when I start back in the spring/summer. also good to have a backup head.

[michricker]

Here is the test rig

[michricker]

First impression of the little mark tube is how awesome it compares. Forgot just how great the lm tone really is. Very comparable heft and dynamics to the tf750 through the hs410. A little warmer and svt like compared to the cleaner tf750. I also like the clear and VPN filters better than the enhance and timber on the tf750. Will play around a little more. I do notice the lm in fully tube mode is a little warmer than SS and a little tube give comes into play.

[svtb15]

There is a thread from years ago that Jauqo XXX said the TF750 did 900 watts at 2 ohms... Not that it really matters since i only use 4 ohms these days...
FYI i had a TF550 for a while and it was one of the nicest amps i played... and would buy one again in the future for certain.

Thunderfunk 750 owners unite! round deuce

[KJung]

Originally Posted by michricker

First impression of the little mark tube is how awesome it compares. Forgot just how great the lm tone really is. Very comparable heft and dynamics to the tf750 through the hs410. A little warmer and svt like compared to the cleaner tf750. I also like the clear and VPN filters better than the enhance and timber on the tf750. Will play around a little more. I do notice the lm in fully tube mode is a little warmer than SS and a little tube give comes into play.

It is an amazing amp. I moved from my TF550b (which I liked a lot) to the LMII when it first came out years ago for similar reasons. Much smaller, even more oomph than the TH550b (and just a smidge less than the TF750a from my A/Bing at gig levels), and a bit wider, more even tone with just as much warmth. Quite amazing.

The LMIII and the LMTube are quite similar, and like you, I feel the effect of the tube is very, very subtle (it is some sort of mini tube that probably doesn't impact the voltage, etc. of a more traditional hybrid design).

All good stuff! The new Markbass Big Bang is supposed to put out a bit more juice, similar warmth, in an even smaller box due to the class D amp (which sounds nothing like the LMT800 you tried).

You can't really lose (except maybe on the crushing weight of that DB750) any way you go with these four great amps.

[michricker]

So far. all around best for me gigging/tone

1. LM Tube. Love the features, tones and simplicity. Will not do the clear articular tone as well as the thunderfunk. Just has the best slap tone even compared to the other options. Great finger style old school playing with the vle This head is the least expensive too of the 4 options. Go figure.

Tied for 2. Thunderfunk 750a and walkabout. Need to decide this week which one to keep! Both have nice parametric eqs which is nice. The lm tube sounds more similar to the pm tube so having the thunderfunk may give more tone options. Hard choice.

3. Db750. Just an awesome big gig amp. Just an awesome tone but the other options just better fit my needs.

[jimc]

You sell the Aggie and I bet you'll end up getting a third!

I have tried a bunch of heads including the Streamliner and always end up using the Aggie in spite of the weight. In fact my band bitch at me if I bring anything else!

[michricker]

Down the road I wouldn't be surprised. The only gigs I'm playing these days are smaller. But for the bigger stuff the DB rules!

[michricker]

I also compared an aggie th500. Not even close to the organic tone of the DB. I think the lm kills the th500 for tone IMO.

[JAUQO III-X]

Originally Posted by svtb15

There is a thread from years ago that Jauqo XXX said the TF750 did 900 watts at 2 ohms... Not that it really matters since i only use 4 ohms these days...

I did? Can you quote me on that? I couldn't have never said that.

[svtb15]

sure thing.. right here
Thunderfunk 750 owners unite! round deuce

Originally Posted by JAUQO III-X

I did? Can you quote me on that? I couldn't have never said that.