Thunderfunk 750a vs Walkabout vs DB750

[KJung]

Originally Posted by speyer

Thanks for the input Ken!

You know, I have always stayed away from Markbass stuff for some reason or another... too popular? too ugly? or just too busy trying other gear! I have a lot of interest in the TH500, and I really like look/form of the amp. I have owned an Aggie 659/728 setup... Very well built, fantastic sounding gear no doubt.

The main reason for the interest in the LMTube for me is the 500 watt class A power section and this nice review. I really loved my Puma 500 with its Class A. Maybe I'll never notice the difference vs the TH500 class D? I dunno...

Also, someone once told me that the RS210's sound similar to the Berg HS series cabs, except for the low end compression the HS's have. If that's the case, I'm in the same camp as the OP which is something to consider I guess. I do love the sound of these RS210's... best bang for buck I have ever seen or heard!

So, now you got me thinking about the TH500 too decisions... decisions.

Well, first, the Puma is class D (the older and new one), which is another good example of how warm and fat and organic a class D amp can sound if the designer choosed to voice it that way (and also, as an example, how the original two space class D Puma was so much more tubey, fat and organic sounding than the newer class D one space Puma, which was purposely revoiced with more mid presence and less deep bass extension... I was part of the 'field test team' on the revoicing of the newer Puma). The old Puma350 was a class A/B head, for some reason. Not sure what that one sounded like!

The LMTube is also a great sounding amp, and again (similar to the OP's impression), the 'tube' of the LMTube does very little. I would recomend the LMIII or the Big Bang as an option there, but the LMTube has a couple nice options that both those other amps don't (the additional combo jack input with volume control, and a push/pull mute).

Again, IMO, unless you are an 'all tube guy' I would be very careful in limiting options bases on solid state topology.

Finally, yes, the RS210 and the Berg HS/HD210's have a lot of similarity to me (had the RH210 and an HS210 at the same time). Nice and warm and round, and very nicely voiced for a warm sounding 'vintage meets modern' head IMO. The LMIII sounded fantastic with the RS210 to my ear. I would love to try the new Big Bang (again, very small class D, but voiced more similarly to the LMII than even the F1 was.

[speyer]

Originally Posted by KJung

I would agree that a tube power section seems to be a different thing (at least if you push it a bit). Solid state topologies, not so much IMO, and differences seem primarily due to design choices, preamp voicing, lo and hi passing differences, etc., etc. Remember, the LMtube has a switch mode power supply. All three of my current amps happen to be class D/SMPS, and they all sound so different as to almost be from different planets!

Minor issue. I would definitely not 'take an amp off my consideration list' due to class of amp or power supply. HUGE variation of tones within each topology category, and more overlap than difference to my ear.

A good example is how much closer the F1 sounds to the LMII versus the LMT800 (had all three at one time, hated the LMT800, loved the F1 and LMII, and eventually liking the F1 even better than the LMII due to the more open low end when pushed. Quite similar tone with just a slight adjustment of EQ IMO and IME).

I too, find I have always been a little uneasy about my amps with class D power sections and switching power supplies. Seems, every time I go to back to something else (class A, or walkabout etc), I find myself saying " that class D sounds like crap compared to this."

like yourself though, I'm open to trying anything really... all these amps seem to sound pretty good next to each other. And judging by the sound of my SL600, I think the class D's are be really improving to the point of power supplies/amp classes being a non-issue comparatively speaking. Every execution has it's own sound.

I'd be interested in hearing an A/B of the TH500 and LMTube myself.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by speyer

I too, find I have always been a little uneasy about my amps with class D power sections and switching power supplies. Seems, every time I go to back to something else (class A, or walkabout etc), I find myself saying " that class D sounds like crap compared to this."

like yourself though, I'm open to trying anything really... all these amps seem to sound pretty good next to each other. And judging by the sound of my SL600, I think the class D's are be really improving to the point of power supplies/amp classes being a non-issue comparatively speaking. Every execution has it's own sound.

I'd be interested in hearing an A/B of the TH500 and LMTube myself.

Well, the Walkabout is a unique amp, and it sounds darn good. Nothing else sounds like it, for better or worse.

The TH500 and LMIII/LMTube sound very different. The TH500 is much rougher... bigger down low, lots of harmonic complexity in the midrange, and a somewhat relaxed top end. The LMIII/LMTube is quite 'flat' when set neutral (filters off and EQ at noon(), is very even and warm in the midrange, and has a very sweet, extended pure top end. Killer amp for slapping, as the OP stated... that nice combination of warm, even, but with plenty of sweet treble extension that never gets harsh.

VERY different heads, and I dig them both. I use the TH500 with my P Bass for that 'grunty, rough' thing, and the F500 (which replaced my LMII) for my more 'clean, crisp' sort of thing with my J Bass. Both are great for what they do.

Your Puma500 (if you have the newer single space model) sounds very much like the Markbass F500, but it is a bit cleaner in the mids.

Again, all great sounding stuff that performs as promised, but of course, all depends if you dig the tone. No amount of knob twisting is going to get the LMIII/LMTube to sound like the TH500 and vice versa. The LMIII/Tube is sweeter, cleaner, more relaxed in the midrange, and not quite as powerful in the deep bass.

[michricker]

All will work in virtually any gig. I guess it boils down to which head, and cab and bass makes you feel most musically optimal. For me the inspiration depends on the type of gig. When I get back to gigging(right now off gigging due to a new baby) I play in the following contexts. Church, small jazz standard trio (ala coffee shop) and also study jazz under a university guy for fun, and in a cover band which sometimes plays venues up to 500 people or so.

Small electric bass jazz gig = 64 jazz with flats, lm tube or walkabout, and a gs112. Sometimes I bring my minimark if totally acoustic. You can dial in a 112 with a vintage bass with flats to sound so smooth and buttery with either a lm or walkabout.

Church/show tune pit gig. Either a 112 or hs410 and I think the thunderfunk with the mtd535 may be the one. The mtd with the thunderfunk can just get the best low B I have ever heard. I like to use the b string more frequently for these type of arrangements. I think this may be the combo for me in this context.

Rock/Coverband Gig= 64 jazz bass with rounds, either the lm tube or walkabout. Assuming di or mic on the rig.

Here is my all time highs for gigs with ultimate tone from audience feedback

1). Sadowsky RV4 into an Svt CL and 810. Large indoor +1000 people rock/funk gig with a great sound system/sound man. The only sadowsky I have liked so far.

2). 1984 Rickenbacker 4003 rounds, with a 73 SVT into a berg NV610. Had more positive feedback than any other combo for a rock type gig I have ever owned. From teddy to Chris squire to Motown even in the ultimate way.

3). Lakland Bob golub USA with flats with walkabout and berg hs410. Another crowd favorite for bar gigs. Great smooth controlled tone for any room environment.

4). Aggi db359 lakland jo4usa fralins rounds into a aggi gs112. I remember playing this lake party about 5 years ago with this set up. The dynamics, tone and feel were at its pinnacle.

I think keeping the lm tube, th750, and walkabout is what I'm going to do. The great DB looks like its sold, so helps my decision. Now I need to pick up a gs112 which I really miss. After going through all the 112 offerings, still my favorite for deep smooth tone when I do a smaller gig.

[wateroftyne]

Cheers for the replies, everyone.

I realise it's probably coincidence, it's just strange that I always struggle with the Class D's, but whenever I plug into a lead sled chances are I'll get something that hits the spot...

[speyer]

So I just spent an hour AB'ing my walkabout with the SL600 w Empress Para EQ. Let's just say that I wish I had done this sooner! but, I didn't have them in the same location til today.

I think the SL600 is a fine sounding amp... It has a beautiful fat luscious thing going that reminds me of Palladino on a P Bass. It does that kind of thing very well... and has a great bloomy bass response with bass dialed back to 10 oclock mids at 2-3 @600 and very sweet sounding top end. It kinda reminds me of the way an SVT would be played at a blues jam... which is impressive to me given it's size and class D rating etc. It's a great plug n' play amp for that tone goal with an amazing feature set form factor etc..

But good things aside, I had a really hard time getting this amp to growl in the mids and still remain clear and accurate. In fact, in a listening context.. I noticed that the more I EQ'ed it (with the on board or Empress), the looser and more uncontrolled it became! I tried boosting and cranking the entire mid bandwith at different Q's to no avail. There's something with this head that really clamps down on its baked in 'voice'. I think this head does what it does very well, and there's not a whole lot of versatility beyond that.


I have 2 full volume rehersals and 3-4 hours of practice time in 3 weeks on the the SL600. Up til tonight's ear-opening A/B, I was convinced that I had the SL sounding very close to the WA! I can tell you right now that if I cant get the SL to brighten up and grind like the WA (which I can not)... it will never satisfy me on the gig. I afraid it's time to move on.

[michricker]

The walkabout and the lm tube are more similiar to me and both ooze great midrange tone which i feel from giging is most important to have for live tone which is spectacular. Thats the problem i have with the aggi tone sometimes - great lows and highs, not as rich midrange as heads like a walkabout little mark or svt. The lm tube has abit more headroom going into a 4ohm cab like the hs410 I'm testing with.

I'm still up in the air with the thunderfunk. Has a unique tone which is a cross between a markbass and an uber modern tone like swr/gk to my ears. Think modern SS with a little warmth. Nice tone for certain niches of music where clear modern tone is the recipe. I think gospel when I plug my mtd 535 into it for sure. Which is a good thing cause I like that tone. Does the articulate chordal stuff best compared to the other heads I tested.

[speyer]

Originally Posted by KJung

Well, first, the Puma is class D (the older and new one), which is another good example of how warm and fat and organic a class D amp can sound if the designer choosed to voice it that way (and also, as an example, how the original two space class D Puma was so much more tubey, fat and organic sounding than the newer class D one space Puma

Hey Ken, My puma 500 was the older one but was certainly Class A/B. (see the sticker) Perhaps they only offered a class A/B puma in the combo version? At any rate.. it was a different animal altogether, and yet it sounded nice and fat, warm and quick with lots of 'heft' to the notes.

[Bassist30]

Originally Posted by michricker

All will work in virtually any gig. I guess it boils down to which head, and cab and bass makes you feel most musically optimal. For me the inspiration depends on the type of gig. When I get back to gigging(right now off gigging due to a new baby) I play in the following contexts. Church, small jazz standard trio (ala coffee shop) and also study jazz under a university guy for fun, and in a cover band which sometimes plays venues up to 500 people or so.

Small electric bass jazz gig = 64 jazz with flats, lm tube or walkabout, and a gs112. Sometimes I bring my minimark if totally acoustic. You can dial in a 112 with a vintage bass with flats to sound so smooth and buttery with either a lm or walkabout.

Church/show tune pit gig. Either a 112 or hs410 and I think the thunderfunk with the mtd535 may be the one. The mtd with the thunderfunk can just get the best low B I have ever heard. I like to use the b string more frequently for these type of arrangements. I think this may be the combo for me in this context.

Rock/Coverband Gig= 64 jazz bass with rounds, either the lm tube or walkabout. Assuming di or mic on the rig.

Here is my all time highs for gigs with ultimate tone from audience feedback

1). Sadowsky RV4 into an Svt CL and 810. Large indoor +1000 people rock/funk gig with a great sound system/sound man. The only sadowsky I have liked so far.

2). 1984 Rickenbacker 4003 rounds, with a 73 SVT into a berg NV610. Had more positive feedback than any other combo for a rock type gig I have ever owned. From teddy to Chris squire to Motown even in the ultimate way.

3). Lakland Bob golub USA with flats with walkabout and berg hs410. Another crowd favorite for bar gigs. Great smooth controlled tone for any room environment.

4). Aggi db359 lakland jo4usa fralins rounds into a aggi gs112. I remember playing this lake party about 5 years ago with this set up. The dynamics, tone and feel were at its pinnacle.

I think keeping the lm tube, th750, and walkabout is what I'm going to do. The great DB looks like its sold, so helps my decision. Now I need to pick up a gs112 which I really miss. After going through all the 112 offerings, still my favorite for deep smooth tone when I do a smaller gig.

Be careful as much as the DB750 seems to sell, and fast, they are re-bought by the same seller. But as i said before there are ways of making the TF sound so similar. The Thunderfunk is one amazing amp. The MTD will really be a great match as the MTD is a very versatile bass. The low end is big as well as Mike Tobias other early basses which i had and wish i still had but in a 5 string version. The 6 string I just could not get a feel for. Gospel Bass has somewhat been gravitated to the MTD, Tobias bass sound. Big and fat low end. Some Roscoe's also. The TF and the GS 12 is a great great match. My friend has the 550B with 2 GS12's and it sounded amazing. I myself have 2 DB12;s and that to sounds great, But the GS has a more extended bottom even though the DB is a bigger box and I think the same speaker. But the GS goes lower yet the DB has a more mid range to them. Both great. I love playing the Thunderfunk through the DB12's.

[michricker]

Agreed. This is my 2nd db750. Just not playing any larger venues to Justify it. Being an engineer by day myself I really appreciate it from a design, build, and quality standpoint. I think the best of all mentioned in this thread from that standpoint.

3rd time down the road when I have a chance to do larger venues I may try the 751. As I don't really care for the mids on the 750.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by speyer

Hey Ken, My puma 500 was the older one but was certainly Class A/B. (see the sticker) Perhaps they only offered a class A/B puma in the combo version? At any rate.. it was a different animal altogether, and yet it sounded nice and fat, warm and quick with lots of 'heft' to the notes.

That combo caused a lot of consternation. My Puma500's were class D and sounded as you describe. My s212 had the wonderful variable crossover/tweeter design. The combo ended up having a small mid driver (even though the website said the cab was the s212, and from the looks of that sticker, even the amp might have been different, even though the website said the combo was powered by the class D Puma500. Not good (not that it really matters I guess, per the discussion above)

They changed the spec on the s212 also without telling anyone... moving from front to rear porting and significantly changing the voicing. So, when I bought my second one, it did not match the voicing of the first one.

Who knows though. They changed things up so much back then, my guess is, toward the end of that original product run, some buyers got the original Puma500 but with the new ICE power amp module replacing the Powersoft. I actually had one of those as a prototype tester for a while

Anyway, fun thread, and it seems the OP made a pretty good decision and has three pretty amazing amps!

[speyer]

On the hunt for a TH500 or LMT500 or possibly a second walkabout to compliment my RS210's. Thanks to everyone for they objective thoughts on these amps!

[Saluki]

@ speyer. I like the STM with a 5751 tube in v1. Seems to even out the boominess and let the mids come through more. I still cut the bass, boost the mids and play with a mid forward cab but love the tone.

[michricker]

My show down looks like I'm narrowing the two final choices to keeping the lm tube and the walkabout. They are similar but different enough to provide unique tones each.

The thunderfunk is just to similar I feel with a slight lean toward the modern side. I actually feel the highs are beefier with both the lm and the walkabout. The lows are more clear with the tf750.

Surprisingly through the hs410 the volume is adequate for any gig. Both the lm tube and walkabout combined are the same cost for me as the tf750. The thunderfunk is however a nice piece of American craftsmanship.

[speyer]

Originally Posted by Saluki

@ speyer. I like the STM with a 5751 tube in v1. Seems to even out the boominess and let the mids come through more. I still cut the bass, boost the mids and play with a mid forward cab but love the tone.

Cool. I read about that mod in the tube swapping thread... nice to know that the streamliner responds well to tube swaps. Did some more A/B'ing again last night and I have to say... the WA is just THE "tone in my head" you know?

I'm going to do everything I can to keep the WA as my main amp. Starting with swapping the fan to a 45cfm/21dba. The current fan in it is only 20cfm (silent type) and is likely the cause of the thermal shutdowns I have been experiencing. If I can get the head to run 1hr steady sets at 90% vol without shutting down... I won't look elsewhere for a different head!

BTW, I'm swapping the fan tonight before rehearsal... wish me luck!

[michricker]

Found a sweet deal on a mint DB751. Anyone compare one of these?

[KJung]

Originally Posted by michricker

Found a sweet deal on a mint DB751. Anyone compare one of these?

Primary difference is the cheaper knobs (plastic versus metal) and the mid control center point moved up a couple of hundred hz (I believe from 500 to 700). Never did a direct A/B, but they sound pretty much similar. Most prefer the new midrange control. Why they don't put a semi-parametric mid on that amp, I just don't know

Edit: There was a very detailed thread a number of years ago also indicating there was other 'cost cutting' stuff going on inside the unit (can't remember... over my head, something about the way the pots were mounted, etc.), but the performance seems virtually identical to me, with a bit more presence up top due to the mid control.

[asands]

This might be the single most useful TB thread I've come across. Very detailed without getting too techy, no one getting mad, lots of amps discussed. Wow, thanks fellas! Just made my decision on a new amp a hell of a lot easier.

[michricker]

Thanks. I agree Lots of other threads get personal.

I think I may try a DB751 too! I really like what I hear on the eq control. One of my concerns with the db750. Don't like those plastic knobs, but appear to be the same as thunderfunk has.

[michricker]

Really debating keeping or returning this thunderfunk 750a. I bought it from guitar center used for $1200 shipped and it is in great shape except the headphone jack does not work. They will get it fixed professionally for free. Since there is a 30 day money back I'm really contemplating what I should do. Is 1200 a good price I won't loose my shirt on if I decide to sell in a year? Headphone jack should be pretty easy fix since these amps are pretty straight forward. What do you think?