Thunderfunk Amp club!

[michricker]

Im going to add a little mark tube to my comparison with the tf750

[KJung]

Originally Posted by michricker

Im going to add a little mark tube to my comparison with the tf750

That is a good amp also. The VLE (variable hi pass) allows you to mimic the warm, somewhat attenuated top end of the Thunderfunk pretty well.

In my many A/B's with my Markbass F500 (somewhat similar to the LMTube but with a bit more volume output and a touch tighter, brigher tone) and the Thunderfunk 750a, into 4ohms, you could get VERY similar tone and volume from each amp. Quite a few TBers (including myself) moved from the TF550b to the original LMII (now the LMIII). Similar mid warmth, and a bit more low end and treble extension. The LMTube won't quite keep up with the TF750a, even though they have somewhat similar power output. The LMTube tends to compress a bit more when really pushed, more similar to the 550b.

The downside of the LMTube is that the tube has VERY little tonal impact. It is a 'minitube' that doesn't impact voltabe like the more typical 12ax7 circuit. Nice head though, but limited EQ versus the TF.

[Bassist30]

Originally Posted by sratas

wow, too much brain for me...but I'm only a passionate player.
It could be interesting hearing also the opinions of better aknowledged guys...

I own a TF 550 B (my main amp) and a class D SMPS hi-power-rated amp (GB streamliner 900). I must admit that I have never pushed them towards their absolute limit volume-wise (only when experimenting by myself, not in a band context) so I can't compare, but, whereas I love and prefer the T-funk tone at low-medium volume, I find myself liking the STM 900 better when serious power and volume is required (very rare occasion...). Talking about low-end reproduction, I never felt the STM lacking balls or thump in a band context.

having said that.....There is a sort of surgical coldness in the STM, in spite of the wonderful true tube preamp, that I find curious and in some circumstances I find the T-Funk more tubey, and "enveloping"(!!!).
Without having deep experience with many other amps, I am tented to attribute the solid, warm, ballsy but coherent midrange of the TFunk to its poweramp, at least partially...maybe I'm wrong, but who knows

there is a sort of modern "lightness" even into the massive STM tone, that, by the way, seems more bold and tough side by side , but with that sort of surgical, modern, rigid, stiff feel to it. Only a matter of nuances, never felt bad with either in the middle of a performance. I tend to focus more on my technique and my way of playing...bah, yesterday night I drunk a bit, sorry...

Curious. I myself use TF as well a GK fusion which I thought was the closest to what I wanted in sound. Now when you are playing either one of your amps, which in reality do you hear with greater detail? Without using words to describe the sound. Just clarity. which amp responded to a clearer sound?

[sratas]

Originally Posted by Bassist30

Curious. I myself use TF as well a GK fusion which I thought was the closest to what I wanted in sound. Now when you are playing either one of your amps, which in reality do you hear with greater detail? Without using words to describe the sound. Just clarity. which amp responded to a clearer sound?

sorry for my english, my words are frequently wrong or improper.
judging the clarity: if you mean "detailed" and intelligibility of the frequencies that compose the tonal output of the bass+ amp system, it's the T-Funk.
It's equilibrium is built, in my opinion and perception, from the well known warmth and pregnant midrange that is, at the same time, quick, thick, tri-dimensional and detailed.
As Kjung said, the STM sounds wider and more extended, but when I play in a band context, with the T funk I can hear every nuance and detail. With some basses and the wrong cab, the Genz can "disappear" in the mix or produce a pocket tone, if you prefer, whereas the TFunk is always clear and focused thanks to the midrange detail and quality. That detail in the midrange and quality of the midrange is, IMO, one of the differencies that set the Funk tone apart from the others, if you like it, of course...

[Bassist30]

Originally Posted by sratas

sorry for my english, my words are frequently wrong or improper.
judging the clarity: if you mean "detailed" and intelligibility of the frequencies that compose the tonal output of the bass+ amp system, it's the T-Funk.
It's equilibrium is built, in my opinion and perception, from the well known warmth and pregnant midrange that is, at the same time, quick, thick, tri-dimensional and detailed.
As Kjung said, the STM sounds wider and more extended, but when I play in a band context, with the T funk I can hear every nuance and detail. With some basses and the wrong cab, the Genz can "disappear" in the mix or produce a pocket tone, if you prefer, whereas the TFunk is always clear and focused thanks to the midrange detail and quality. That detail in the midrange and quality of the midrange is, IMO, one of the differencies that set the Funk tone apart from the others, if you like it, of course...

I agree. But its more than a strong mid range. You should read the Dave's Thunderfunk response some post up. Read it a few times. I agree it can be a little over the top. But it is very true and holds true when you are in a room and able to get a good sound.

[sratas]

Originally Posted by Bassist30

I agree. But its more than a strong mid range. You should read the Dave's Thunderfunk response some post up. Read it a few times. I agree it can be a little over the top. But it is very true and holds true when you are in a room and able to get a good sound.

I red again Mr. Funk's words...highest level designer and engineer, no doubt.
And, maybe you misunderstod my answer. I think that the T-Funk tone is the epitome of Mr. Funk's goals, and that this resides in the QUALITY of the tone, especially, IMO and IME, in the complex, multi-layer midrange, that sounds way different from other amps, and not in the sense of timbre, but in the sense that you have THAT sense of quality of it.

I have a question for you techy guys, especially Kjung, who tested the two amps I own currently.
In some very rare occasions where I pushed the two amps considerably (outdoors, fighting a 3000 watts multi-cab PA with my amp etc.) I noticed that my two Bergs showed an higher amount of speaker cone excursion with the T Funk, whereas with the mighty Streamliner (eq'd to a little bass cut, but still capable of producing a massive fundamental) the speakers seemed to move less, at comparable volume levels or even with the STM louder...
I tend to think that the STM builds up its massiveness with a gorgeous upper bass-lower midrange (think 80-180 Hz) whereas, maybe, the T funk is capable of adding to the soup even more deep bass response that, we all know, is less apparent to the human ear (I'm a medical doctor specialized in physiology, I know what I say) and sometimes drives all that drivers to a hard limit...
Just for talking...what do you think?

[KJung]

Originally Posted by sratas

I red again Mr. Funk's words...highest level designer and engineer, no doubt.
And, maybe you misunderstod my answer. I think that the T-Funk tone is the epitome of Mr. Funk's goals, and that this resides in the QUALITY of the tone, especially, IMO and IME, in the complex, multi-layer midrange, that sounds way different from other amps, and not in the sense of timbre, but in the sense that you have THAT sense of quality of it.

I have a question for you techy guys, especially Kjung, who tested the two amps I own currently.
In some very rare occasions where I pushed the two amps considerably (outdoors, fighting a 3000 watts multi-cab PA with my amp etc.) I noticed that my two Bergs showed an higher amount of speaker cone excursion with the T Funk, whereas with the mighty Streamliner (eq'd to a little bass cut, but still capable of producing a massive fundamental) the speakers seemed to move less, at comparable volume levels or even with the STM louder...
I tend to think that the STM builds up its massiveness with a gorgeous upper bass-lower midrange (think 80-180 Hz) whereas, maybe, the T funk is capable of adding to the soup even more deep bass response that, we all know, is less apparent to the human ear (I'm a medical doctor specialized in physiology, I know what I say) and sometimes drives all that drivers to a hard limit...
Just for talking...what do you think?

The Genz heads are among the few bass heads on the market that use a true hi passing of the deep low end. Most of the time, when you see a LOT of speaker pistoning, that is being caused by frequencies that don't really help the human ear 'hear' the low end (i.e., frequencies below 35 hz or so). So, by hi passing (i.e., TOTALLY cutting out) those 'sub bass' frequencies, you actually don't hear a drop in bass response, but the efficiency of the rig increases, since the amp is not spending a lot of power reproducing those super lows, and the cab is not using all its mechanical ability (i.e., the speaker 'travel') to reproduce those super deep tones.

A TBer (FDeck) actually makes a very nice, small inexpensive hi pass filter that can be used between the bass and amp to eliminate those sub bass frequencies before they hit the amp and speakers.

The Thunderfunk IMO is actually controlled quite well down low (especially the 550). However, in those situations where you are cranking the volume and low end, an external hi pass can help. With some heads, like the old SWR SM400, which puts out HUGE sub bass, a hi pass is almost necessary.

So, again, the Genz heads have a true hi pass filter down low, which allows them to still sound massive in the low end (especially the Streamliner), but to not 'waste' any power or speaker excursion on sub bass frequencies that don't matter much anyway.

[sratas]

Originally Posted by KJung

The Genz heads are among the few bass heads on the market that use a true hi passing of the deep low end. Most of the time, when you see a LOT of speaker pistoning, that is being caused by frequencies that don't really help the human ear 'hear' the low end (i.e., frequencies below 35 hz or so). So, by hi passing (i.e., TOTALLY cutting out) those 'sub bass' frequencies, you actually don't hear a drop in bass response, but the efficiency of the rig increases, since the amp is not spending a lot of power reproducing those super lows, and the cab is not using all its mechanical ability (i.e., the speaker 'travel') to reproduce those super deep tones.

A TBer (FDeck) actually makes a very nice, small inexpensive hi pass filter that can be used between the bass and amp to eliminate those sub bass frequencies before they hit the amp and speakers.

The Thunderfunk IMO is actually controlled quite well down low (especially the 550). However, in those situations where you are cranking the volume and low end, an external hi pass can help. With some heads, like the old SWR SM400, which puts out HUGE sub bass, a hi pass is almost necessary.

So, again, the Genz heads have a true hi pass filter down low, which allows them to still sound massive in the low end (especially the Streamliner), but to not 'waste' any power or speaker excursion on sub bass frequencies that don't matter much anyway.

exactly Ken, I know the Fdek and its effect...
and I knew also the hipassing of the GB, if I remember correctly it is set at approx. 50 Hz, a smart move from GB, because, in fact, frequencies below that point are not reproduced anyway, at least with most commercial speaker systems, without significant strain and rolloff.
But if I use a Barefaced Big Baby (my secret dream)? Or another extended range speaker system like fEarFul or similar?
I have a feeling that, with that drivers, that have no difficulty at reproducing the deepest lows without farting, mud, overexcursion and compression, the TFunk would be fabulous...in fact I admit that I looked many times at Mr. Claber's work with his "big" series of speakers....

[KJung]

Originally Posted by sratas

exactly Ken, I know the Fdek and its effect...
and I knew also the hipassing of the GB, if I remember correctly it is set at approx. 50 Hz, a smart move from GB, because, in fact, frequencies below that point are not reproduced anyway, at least with most commercial speaker systems, without significant strain and rolloff.
But if I use a Barefaced Big Baby (my secret dream)? Or another extended range speaker system like fEarFul or similar?
I have a feeling that, with that drivers, that have no difficulty at reproducing the deepest lows without farting, mud, overexcursion and compression, the TFunk would be fabulous...in fact I admit that I looked many times at Mr. Claber's work with his "big" series of speakers....

The Genz hi passing is set around 35hz or so, so you don't lose much that a heavy duty driver (like the 3015LF type boxes) can reproduce. And, remember the 'boost' button on the Shuttle is actually a combination bass boost and hi pass 'lowering' button, that actually takes the hi passing of the Genz down to 30hz (from posts by the Genz designer if I remember correctly), for those cabs like the Barefaced that can wump down there. The Shuttle Max is even better, since that 'hi pass/bass boost' is a variable control, so you can kind of 'fine tune' the deep bass for the cab.

Again, though, the Thunderfunk 750a is not one that I would say has an 'uncontrolled' low end (versus heads like the Mesa M6/M9, some of the EA heads, the old SWR heads). So, not a big issue with most cabs with the TF750a, and the Bergs can handle that deep low end pretty well.

[Bassist30]

Originally Posted by michricker

Im going to add a little mark tube to my comparison with the tf750

What did you come up with.

[michricker]

Well the show down for me is going be be next week. The two weak contenders will be sold off! JK, all these heads are strong in there own way is the problem, but will have to sell two financially.

All through a Berg HS410, with a 64 Jazz bass and a MTD535 also with muscians on guitar and drums to get a feel for how they handle mix/dynamics:

Ratings to be used 1 to 10 scale, 1 being worst, 10 best for the following categories:

Tone
Dynamics/volume
Versitility of Tone Options (Jazz gig to Heavy Metal?)
Portability
Recording Features
Simplicity/Gig friendly Features
Build Quality/Components Used/Service/Warranty

Contestant 1). The mighty Thunderfunk 750a - phone/line out still broke but working with Dave hopefully next week to figure out how to fix! Want that headphone feature to use for late night practice - the others don't have this.

Contestant 2). Walkabout - still a contendender IMO with such a great organic midrange. Could end up being number one for tone, but does not have the heft/volume of the others. we will see

Contestant 3). Markbass LM Tube - tried the LM 800 Tube with the class D power, hated it. This has the great analog power plus the dual output, mute, ect. which I think I'll dig. There is a huge difference between the analog and digital IME at least in the markbass line for tone/dynamics...I greatly prefer analog...

Contestant 4). Aguilar DB750 with Telefunken and NOS upgrades. Bit old mean lead sled, but so cool in its own way with adictive power and slam to the dynamics.

Goal will be to keep two. One for the modern side and one for the old school tubey side since I play both styles of gigs when I start back in the spring/summer. also good to have a backup head.

[Bassist30]

Originally Posted by michricker

Well the show down for me is going be be next week. The two weak contenders will be sold off! JK, all these heads are strong in there own way is the problem, but will have to sell two financially.

All through a Berg HS410, with a 64 Jazz bass and a MTD535 also with muscians on guitar and drums to get a feel for how they handle mix/dynamics:

Ratings to be used 1 to 10 scale, 1 being worst, 10 best for the following categories:

Tone
Dynamics/volume
Versitility of Tone Options (Jazz gig to Heavy Metal?)
Portability
Recording Features
Simplicity/Gig friendly Features
Build Quality/Components Used/Service/Warranty

Contestant 1). The mighty Thunderfunk 750a - phone/line out still broke but working with Dave hopefully next week to figure out how to fix! Want that headphone feature to use for late night practice - the others don't have this.

Contestant 2). Walkabout - still a contendender IMO with such a great organic midrange. Could end up being number one for tone, but does not have the heft/volume of the others. we will see

Contestant 3). Markbass LM Tube - tried the LM 800 Tube with the class D power, hated it. This has the great analog power plus the dual output, mute, ect. which I think I'll dig. There is a huge difference between the analog and digital IME at least in the markbass line for tone/dynamics...I greatly prefer analog...

Contestant 4). Aguilar DB750 with Telefunken and NOS upgrades. Bit old mean lead sled, but so cool in its own way with adictive power and slam to the dynamics.

Goal will be to keep two. One for the modern side and one for the old school tubey side since I play both styles of gigs when I start back in the spring/summer. also good to have a backup head.

hmmmmmmm have some nice stuff. Also the Berg 410 along with the DB12 are nice cabinets. I know its a drag to get an amp that has something wrong with it. Dave is a master and I am sure he would fix that in no time.

[michricker]

Yes. So far love the tf750. Ill open up another thread next week to download the results outside the thunderfunk club thread. Yes, the berg hs410 won my previous cab shoot out for the ultimate gigging cab. This recent MTD535 with an alder body/maple neck/fingerboard and the 64 jazz won overall against serious competion for my ultimate two basses to cover modern and old school. Both are uniquely good in their own brands. This head shoot out will complete my gear analysis hopefully for a while! Need to then concentrate back on being a great player for my New Years res! Cheers.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by michricker

Well the show down for me is going be be next week. The two weak contenders will be sold off! JK, all these heads are strong in there own way is the problem, but will have to sell two financially.

All through a Berg HS410, with a 64 Jazz bass and a MTD535 also with muscians on guitar and drums to get a feel for how they handle mix/dynamics:

Ratings to be used 1 to 10 scale, 1 being worst, 10 best for the following categories:

Tone
Dynamics/volume
Versitility of Tone Options (Jazz gig to Heavy Metal?)
Portability
Recording Features
Simplicity/Gig friendly Features
Build Quality/Components Used/Service/Warranty

Contestant 1). The mighty Thunderfunk 750a - phone/line out still broke but working with Dave hopefully next week to figure out how to fix! Want that headphone feature to use for late night practice - the others don't have this.

Contestant 2). Walkabout - still a contendender IMO with such a great organic midrange. Could end up being number one for tone, but does not have the heft/volume of the others. we will see

Contestant 3). Markbass LM Tube - tried the LM 800 Tube with the class D power, hated it. This has the great analog power plus the dual output, mute, ect. which I think I'll dig. There is a huge difference between the analog and digital IME at least in the markbass line for tone/dynamics...I greatly prefer analog...

Contestant 4). Aguilar DB750 with Telefunken and NOS upgrades. Bit old mean lead sled, but so cool in its own way with adictive power and slam to the dynamics.

Goal will be to keep two. One for the modern side and one for the old school tubey side since I play both styles of gigs when I start back in the spring/summer. also good to have a backup head.

Fun process. I too (given I dig the Markbass heads in general) was surprised at how much I disliked the LMTube800. One of the few amps I actually returned a few days after I got it. And, interestingly, it isn't really a class D thing, since the older F1, the F500 and the new Big Bang are warm and fat sounding. Something about that particular 800 watt power module combined with the voicing of the preamp that results in a harsh, bloated tone for me. I LOVE the LMIII, and heard almost not impact of the tube in the LMTube version of that head. Nice stuff. Sounds like you are getting close to the end with your search!

[bugbass]

The Thunderfunk amps will be very interesting to me if they can deliver the lack of dynamics/headroom I often miss with the lightweight amps.

[jastacey]

Originally Posted by michricker

Well the show down for me is going be be next week. The two weak contenders will be sold off! JK, all these heads are strong in there own way is the problem, but will have to sell two financially.

All through a Berg HS410, with a 64 Jazz bass and a MTD535 also with muscians on guitar and drums to get a feel for how they handle mix/dynamics:

Ratings to be used 1 to 10 scale, 1 being worst, 10 best for the following categories:

Tone
Dynamics/volume
Versitility of Tone Options (Jazz gig to Heavy Metal?)
Portability
Recording Features
Simplicity/Gig friendly Features
Build Quality/Components Used/Service/Warranty

Contestant 1). The mighty Thunderfunk 750a - phone/line out still broke but working with Dave hopefully next week to figure out how to fix! Want that headphone feature to use for late night practice - the others don't have this.

Contestant 2). Walkabout - still a contendender IMO with such a great organic midrange. Could end up being number one for tone, but does not have the heft/volume of the others. we will see

Contestant 3). Markbass LM Tube - tried the LM 800 Tube with the class D power, hated it. This has the great analog power plus the dual output, mute, ect. which I think I'll dig. There is a huge difference between the analog and digital IME at least in the markbass line for tone/dynamics...I greatly prefer analog...

Contestant 4). Aguilar DB750 with Telefunken and NOS upgrades. Bit old mean lead sled, but so cool in its own way with adictive power and slam to the dynamics.

Goal will be to keep two. One for the modern side and one for the old school tubey side since I play both styles of gigs when I start back in the spring/summer. also good to have a backup head.

What I've settled on for modern sounding is the ThunderFunk 550-B and the Aguilar Tone Hammer through my Berg HS410

[sratas]

after having experimented for the last 3 years in a electro-acoustic ensemble and psychotic-psychedelic influencies...two months ago I have joined a local popular (not famous, talking about folk only...) folk band that performs covers from the musical background of our region and true originals.
the following are two videos captured with a crappy cheapo camera (not an actual video camcorder) so the audio is cheap sounding as well. But the bass can be heard quite clearly, obviously not through your common laptop speakers...quality cabs or headphones required.
I have studio recordings of my TFunk (and the resulting tone is always top class) but it has been pleasing, for me, to hear an approximate estimate of our tone from an audience point of view...hope it will be for you.
Room: long and narrow, normal height ceiling, full of people (singing the refrain). Quite good acoustics to be honest, but our actual "sound" was so much better than this, but, just for fun...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7zgt7BxjIA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI0t5F9pbVQ

[Bassist30]

Originally Posted by sratas

after having experimented for the last 3 years in a electro-acoustic ensemble and psychotic-psychedelic influencies...two months ago I have joined a local popular (not famous, talking about folk only...) folk band that performs covers from the musical background of our region and true originals.
the following are two videos captured with a crappy cheapo camera (not an actual video camcorder) so the audio is cheap sounding as well. But the bass can be heard quite clearly, obviously not through your common laptop speakers...quality cabs or headphones required.
I have studio recordings of my TFunk (and the resulting tone is always top class) but it has been pleasing, for me, to hear an approximate estimate of our tone from an audience point of view...hope it will be for you.
Room: long and narrow, normal height ceiling, full of people (singing the refrain). Quite good acoustics to be honest, but our actual "sound" was so much better than this, but, just for fun...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7zgt7BxjIA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI0t5F9pbVQ

Acquisisce la cultura. Bella

[michricker]

Worked in Torino over last 4 years. Beautiful part of the world

Ciao

[sratas]

thanks for the kind words guys...
wish you all a "thunderfunk'd new year"