Tilt-back or stand for my situation?

Bullitt5135 · #1 10-06-2012, 12:25 AM

I've just spent the last couple hours searching this topic, but still find myself confused. I'm not sure if a tilt-back solution or a cabinet stand (ie: milk crate) would be best for me. At close range, is cab angle more important than height off the floor?

My classic rock band plays a lot of bar gigs, and I'm usually never more than a couple feet in front of my cab (and often right on top of it). I'm having the typical problem -- I can't hear myself clearly on stage, although the feedback I get from people in the audience is that my volume/tone is good. When I get the EQ to where I can hear a little better, my guitarist says my tone is thin and trebly, not bassy enough (grain of salt taken considering the source).

Gear: Fender Jazz -> VT Bass -> GK 700RBII -> Avatar 4ohm 2x12; No PA support (though this may change in the future if we upgrade monitors and mains); no soundman (singer runs the low-budget PA from the stage)

Will a block of wood under the front of the cab (or tilt-back) do the trick? To get the optimum angle at close range for MY ears, will it mess up the cab's projection into the room? Or would I be better off with a 20"-ish stand. Or how about a shorter, angled stand, giving me the best of both worlds? I'd rather not spend $50 on a stand if I can get away with a chunk of 2x4 instead, and I really don't want to mess around during a gig rearranging my gear to try different options. I'm hoping some TB opinions can shorten my learning curve. Thx.

Not yet · #2 10-06-2012, 01:20 AM

Use an ampwedge for $25 and very happy in a similar situation. Had a stand and wasn't. Sure a block of wood would do the trick if you didn't want to spend the $

5port · #3 10-06-2012, 01:23 AM

^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^

$10 cheaper at Musiciansfriend. At the last gig when I didnt need it on my amp I put it under the floor monitor.

chrisan2 · #4 10-06-2012, 01:44 AM

i reaken lift your speaker straight up on a chair or something , that way your sound is still directed at the room versus angling it up because then your going to be missing the target [audience}

Munjibunga · #5 10-06-2012, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisan2

i reaken lift your speaker straight up on a chair or something , that way your sound is still directed at the room versus angling it up because then your going to be missing the target [audience}

Did you spell "reckon" with an NZ accent?

JimmyM · #6 10-06-2012, 02:07 AM

I often use a piece of 2" x 2" I found in a hardware store parking lot and sanded and sprayed black when I need a tilt-back for a small cab. Cost me $1 for the can of cheap black paint and I already had the sandpaper. Works great, but beware of tilting back too far...I have had my amp topple over by going too far.

Or you can use an amp stand. But always remember the number one rule of a professional looking stage...

Chairs are lame, too.

Downunderwonder · #7 10-06-2012, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Did you spell "reckon" with an NZ accent?

That would be an Orstraalian accent. NZ wreckin'.

Up on a box works until a speaker gets some 3ft off the floor, losing bass coupling.

chrisan2 · #8 10-06-2012, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Did you spell "reckon" with an NZ accent?

i reakon i mita eh mate!

dincz · #9 10-06-2012, 03:01 AM

I suggest you stand. Tilting back is OK in moderation but beware of falling over

sound of bass · #10 10-06-2012, 03:36 AM

I had similar trouble in the last band. I bought a tilt stand, 20' tall, and didnt like it at all simply because I could no longer feel the floor vibrate ffom my bass. May not be a good reason for you,lol.....but I need that. Luckily not a total loss, it works great with my practice amp in my small apartment, and the old man who lives below me, no longer bitches about it.

MaHei · #11 10-06-2012, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dincz

I suggest you stand. Tilting back is OK in moderation but beware of falling over

There you go. Why bother with hardware? Have a few drinks and you will tilt naturally in relation to your amp.

dincz · #12 10-06-2012, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sound of bass

I bought a tilt stand, 20' tall

Blankandson · #13 10-06-2012, 07:00 PM

Sometimes you just gotta lay on the floor on your back while playing and put your ears right up against your speaker. You have a right to some of the stage and if the singer wants it he/she can just step over you. No problem hearing yourself that way.

lpdeluxe · #14 10-06-2012, 08:31 PM

I gigged for a long stretch with an Ampeg B100R on an amplifier stand. I ran a DI into the board (we had subs) and placed the amp where I and the drummer could hear the bass clearly. I never had a problem with not hearing myself, we could keep the stage relatively quiet, and the PA did the heavy lifting for the dancers.

bgavin · #15 10-07-2012, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

Up on a box works until a speaker gets some 3ft off the floor, losing bass coupling.

Yep.

In addition to loss of coupling, you also run afoul of the Allison Effect.
Link to Allison Effect

A driver lifted off the floor to a 48" ear level is going to have suckouts around 80 Hz.
This gets worse as the lifted boundary interacts with side and back walls of varying distances.
If you are 48" from the floor, back and side walls, you are looking at an 11dB suckout. Half as loud. Nasty.

If the cab is just a stage monitor, the audience will not hear the suckout.
Alternatively, the ideal location is on the floor, in the corner, pointed up at 45 degree angle.
Stand on-axis and you get it all, and minimal suckouts.

Fun, eh?

**bassybill** · #16 10-07-2012, 11:29 AM

Tilting your cab back works great in this situation. You might be surprised at just how much more clearly you will be able to hear yourself.

I had an angled cab stand given to me by our guitarist as he no longer needed it and I used it on every gig until I got my Markbass 210 combo, which is designed to tilt back without the need for a stand (like a wedge monitor).

rapidfirerob · #17 10-07-2012, 11:31 AM

I had the same issue. I waited and got a second identical cab. You can plug them both in or not, but you will always hear yourself. Maybe a solution for down the road. The Ampwedge looks like a good solution in the near term.

jeffbonny · #18 10-07-2012, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Or you can use an amp stand. But always remember the number one rule of a professional looking stage...

A bare milk crate is an amateur hour horror but piece of duvetyne will pretty it up quite acceptably. More crap to carry though. I like the free wood block painted black.

Or you could just go out and buy a GB Shuttle with a built in tilt back.....
.

Jazzdogg · #19 10-07-2012, 02:25 PM

A couple of my cabs have a spring-loaded handle screwed to the bottom, which functions as a handy tilt-back device when needed:

http://www.usspeaker.com/sh-H1065-1.htm

**mtlbasslad** · #20 04-10-2013, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisan2

i reaken lift your speaker straight up on a chair or something , that way your sound is still directed at the room versus angling it up because then your going to be missing the target [audience}

More of a problem for guitards, higher frequencies are more "beaming" than low fregs...

Another thing no one seems to address is the effect of proximity to corners. Although I'm not an audio engineer, if I remember correctly a bass cab placed near 2 planes (wall & floor) gets a 3db boost - near 3 planes (corner, floor & 2 walls) is a 6db boost.

Comments?