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  #21  
Old 01-21-2013, 01:48 AM
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And after all, those classic amps were really just an artifact of what was possible with the technology of their day. Sure they're great, sure they're musical...but tubes, really? It's an accident of technology that they became "classic." In the future there will be fewer limitations and thus no "classics."

Do I go to far?
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  #22  
Old 01-21-2013, 02:59 AM
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Timeless suggests a design that cannot be improved upon and remains practical. I'd say the era of big heavy tube amps is waning, though not dying altogether. I think class D will take over once more serious emphasis is put on the preamps. Ampeg thinks the 8Pro's SVT preamp and class D poweramp pairing is worth more than all-tube SVT's, pretty strong message there considering there's no way the 8Pro's cost more to make.

And don't count out digital modelling, there is nothing about an amp's coloration that isn't artificial, and if there's anything digital beats analog at it's being artificial, just a matter of finding the right recipe. Offerings like the Zoom B3 could do away with bass amps altogether, you never know.

I have mixed a band whose bassist brings a powered PA subwoofer and he uses an MXR bass DI+ through the monitors. I thought it sucked since the PA's subs were better and it just introduced phase problems but I doubt anyone was trying that 10 years ago. The times they are a changing...
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  #23  
Old 01-21-2013, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuned View Post

I have mixed a band whose bassist brings a powered PA subwoofer and he uses an MXR bass DI+ through the monitors. I thought it sucked since the PA's subs were better and it just introduced phase problems but I doubt anyone was trying that 10 years ago. The times they are a changing...

Shouldn't he have just sent the signal straight to the desk and getting feeds from the monitor instead of bringing along a powered sub. That's just a lack of understanding on how to use his gear
  #24  
Old 01-21-2013, 06:01 AM
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Crazy DSP in the future.
This reminds me of Line6 Variax bass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottfeldstein View Post
True, there are a parade of also-rans in the shadow of yesterday's timeless amplifiers. But even more importantly, tomorrow's equipment will obviate the possibility of "timeless" amplifiers altogether. As digital signal processing gets better and better, any amp can sound like anything you want it to sound like. Not like in the 70s when you had to have a certain brand and a certain model to get a certain sound.
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  #25  
Old 01-21-2013, 06:06 AM
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Does this mean reduced chance for single person amp company?
Now I am concerned about the survivalability of having a boutique type of amp. Need to start stocking some tubes?



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Originally Posted by g4string View Post
Timeless IMO means being able to be repaired/serviced years down the road. The problem with most, if not all modern amps is that the point to point wiring done in the past has all been replaced with PCB's (printed circuit boards) and line replaceable modules (ie, most micro amps). This leads to a major problem becoming timeless.....how do you get parts for an amp that has been discontinued 20 years into the future when the manufacturer no longer makes that model, sells the parts, or has gone OOB. I would assume getting a pcb or module for a most amps being sold now 20 years into the future will be next to near impossible. There really is no aftermarket demand for such things when a suitable replacement will be cheaper than repairing the timeless amp you want to repair. Unfortunately, I think modern manufacturing practices have made most things we cherish nowadays non-timeles.
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  #26  
Old 01-21-2013, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g4string View Post
Timeless IMO means being able to be repaired/serviced years down the road. The problem with most, if not all modern amps is that the point to point wiring done in the past has all been replaced with PCB's (printed circuit boards) and line replaceable modules (ie, most micro amps). This leads to a major problem becoming timeless.....how do you get parts for an amp that has been discontinued 20 years into the future when the manufacturer no longer makes that model, sells the parts, or has gone OOB. I would assume getting a pcb or module for a most amps being sold now 20 years into the future will be next to near impossible. There really is no aftermarket demand for such things when a suitable replacement will be cheaper than repairing the timeless amp you want to repair. Unfortunately, I think modern manufacturing practices have made most things we cherish nowadays non-timeles.
I agree with this. IMO, the more mechanical an amp is, the greater its chance of becoming timeless.

I have a small amp on which two critical female plug sockets broke off because they are plastic. I opened the amp to discover that they are integrated into a circuit board. Since the amp is old and long out of production, I foresee almost no chance of an economical fix. If, on the other hand, they were basic, generic, metal jacks—easy as pie, as well as environmentally better. Fortunately, it was cheap when I bought it.

Sometimes the same things that make modern amps great also make them less enduring on a practical level.
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  #27  
Old 01-21-2013, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottfeldstein View Post
And after all, those classic amps were really just an artifact of what was possible with the technology of their day. Sure they're great, sure they're musical...but tubes, really? It's an accident of technology that they became "classic." In the future there will be fewer limitations and thus no "classics."

Do I go to far?
No-not at all but I have to say there will always be classics- they will be relative to one's place in time and to the evolution of gear. Just think- the things that we might consider "classic", Ampeg/Fender tube gear and early P-basses have a unique place in time: they were the "firsts" of their kind and at the same time are "current" with regards to their usefulness. Heck-they are still being made! It will take a few revolutionary changes in technology and another generation or so to have other similar benchmarks and their own definition of "classic" or "timeless". Just like there is for the auto industry.
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  #28  
Old 01-21-2013, 06:28 AM
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For the most part, we live in a "throw away" society. Look around, not just in the music world, how many things do you buy today that is really built to last?

We also have consumers that want "everything" and they want it "cheap". Impulse buying. When I was growing up (this is not a "Back when I was a kid response") if you needed something, you saved up for it and bought something and it lasted for quite a while. If you really wanted something, you did the same. But you really had to want it bad to spend hard earned cash for it.

On my last two bass head purchases(yes, I still have both of them), I did a ton of research and picked products that I thought would be with me through the long haul. I also took into consideration how easily I could get them repaired. I honestly think I could repair my current bass heads.

I have a Zenith tube radio that belonged to my father-in-law. It is well over 55 years old. It is in perfect condition and plays great. How much of our current gear will be going in 50 years?
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  #29  
Old 01-21-2013, 07:00 AM
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It ALL has an opportunity at timelessness if it keeps working Unfortunately, I can see a lot of micro amps becoming white elephants along the way since the technology still hasn't completely shaken out yet, and companies that are here now may not be here in the future. Stuff like that is really hard to predict.
+1
Once amplifiers were built to be repaired, so if a particular part was defective, or wore out, a new component could be installed. Newer amps are designed differently. I'm not sure that as time passes and circuits are upgraded, repairs will be even be possible. The newer micro amps may end up in technology collages for art fairs.

Ric
  #30  
Old 01-21-2013, 07:01 AM
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If nothing else, I have faith that today's ss peaveys will be around longer than any of us will be.
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  #31  
Old 01-21-2013, 07:05 AM
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I don't know why a bassist would be interested in "timeless", but I'd put my money on any high quality all tube amp for longevity - Reeves, Marshall, Fender, whatever.
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  #32  
Old 01-21-2013, 07:08 AM
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  #33  
Old 01-21-2013, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by vpermana View Post
Can boutique amp such as monique jule amp or satellite become timeless too?
I don't see any problem with a classic design being timeless, after all if in future you can get an old Marshall repaired somewhere.
I am certain a Monique would be no problem to find suitable replacement parts for, after all, strangely enough in the last couple of years there are new production tubes being made today like the 6386
Varimu tube that have been obsolete and out of production for near
20 years.
I feel some sort of backlash going on out there, even among the youth
against the current trend for pictures of old gear with mouse rotatable controls appearing on their PC's.

Even kids want something slightly less vapour-us to spend their hard earned cash on.
PS Kemper's at least have a box with real knobs and sockets on.
  #34  
Old 01-27-2013, 06:23 AM
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Now let show your amps which you think could be a potential to be a timeless piece
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  #35  
Old 01-27-2013, 02:54 PM
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+1 - the DB751 especially. The TH500 as a close second.
I agree. I was actually going to say "Aguilar ___________".
  #36  
Old 01-27-2013, 03:12 PM
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Picture anyone?
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  #37  
Old 01-27-2013, 03:23 PM
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May I mention the mesa 400+ ?
  #38  
Old 01-29-2013, 09:52 PM
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I think my 60 year old Tweed Fender Deluxe and Pro are fairly timeless and repairable into the forseable future.
  #39  
Old 01-30-2013, 02:14 AM
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May I mention the mesa 400+ ?
The old school Mesa all-tubes are all timeless candidates. D180, 400, 400+ (and even Buster)
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  #40  
Old 01-30-2013, 02:20 AM
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I think the glockenklang bassart is such an amp already...ish
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