Is tone in the cab?

aaronhutson · #1 06-12-2011, 12:03 PM

Well clearly both have an affect on the tone. And Of course the head is the major component in creating your tone. but here is my question:

I have played the same head with the same settings through a 410, a 210&15, 218, 215 and a few others. And every time it sounds different.

Well of course they do because of the amount of air being pushed, frequency pickup of the cabs, and all the other technical junk.

But when you play a live gig, lets say with a 410, and you are miced, that 410 sound gets put through the pa, lets say 4 18s. So those 18s are putting out the 410 sound while at the same time adding the 18 sound to it? Does my math add up? Im not talking color persay. Just the tone as a whole that the cab puts out.

So whether or not im making sense, what im trying to get at is what is the crowd really hearing? Yeah i can not run through the pa but the people in the back wont hear me as well. Or i could go direct but the front row wouldnt hear much of me. Or i could take into affect what venue im playing and adjust my sound to match the venues system.

What do you think? Im not looking for technicality or specs or anything. But more just real world answers and opinions.

username1 · #2 06-12-2011, 12:26 PM

A pa system shouldnt color the sound, only repoduce what signal is sent to it. If you like the sound of a certain cabinet you should probably mike it through the pa.

seamonkey · #3 06-12-2011, 12:35 PM

When you mic a 4x10 you only mic one speaker. What goes through the mic is not what your ears hear. You hear all the drivers, and interference patterns from the driver configuration. Your most accurate tone is going to come off one speaker.

Once you use mic or DI what the audience hears is what the sound engineer wants them to hear.

Very astute on noticing that the FOH system is not the same speaker config. FOH science is well understood and defined. It has nothing to do with driver size, it's all about accuracy. Think acoustic instruments like drums, cymbals, singers, acoustic guitars - these have to come across accurately.

BassmanPaul · #4 06-12-2011, 01:13 PM

Tone comes from the strings, pickups, electronics, amplifier and speakers. All intertwined with your hands.

I don't like how I sound through the PA as I consider my speakers part of my instrument. Using a three way cabinet, as I do, ideally each speaker should be miced. There again you have to add the sound man and his biases. The bass tone that he considers ideal may well be the polar opposite of yours.

lbwdog · #5 06-12-2011, 01:24 PM

Every component contributes to the overall sound, but remember, we're not talking about an audiophile recording. It's just bass guitar in a live venue. Minor sonic differences are really not that noticeable for the average audience.

aaronhutson · #6 06-12-2011, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassmanPaul

you have to add the sound man and his biases. The bass tone that he considers ideal may well be the polar opposite of of yours.

That was a part of my thought process too. But i forgot to throw it in there. So thanks for bringing it up!

aaronhutson · #7 06-12-2011, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbwdog

but remember, we're not talking about an audiophile recording.

Well lets say we are. Playing through a boom box and playing it through a system or even a car stereo, they will all change the overall tone. So lets say there is a bass solo or important bass riff. That guys tone is now different from what he recorded and wanted.

AwkwardLoudness · #8 06-12-2011, 01:46 PM

Speaker cabs are a critical factor regarding tone.

When a cab is mic'd to a PA system, the sound is additionally affected by microphone placement, any mic preamps in the signal chain, mixing board, PA cabs, and the venue room dimensions/surfaces/etc. The PA woofers shouldn't color the tone but certain frequencies may be cut or emphasized by them.

aaronhutson · #9 06-12-2011, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AwkwardLoudness

The PA woofers shouldn't color the tone but certain frequencies may be cut or emphasized by them.

Thats what i was trying to say but you said it much better my friend!

Russell L · #10 06-13-2011, 06:23 AM

Consider this: comparing the speakers in my truck that are mounted in the doors to the ones in my wife's van that are mounted in different compartments makes a world of difference in what I hear. My Markbass cab sounds different from my Trace Elliot cab, even though they have almost the same exact dimensions. Don't even get me started on what my rig sounds like mic'd through the 18s in the mains once the sound man gets his hands on the knobs.

nysbob · #11 06-13-2011, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassmanPaul

Tone comes from the strings, pickups, electronics, amplifier and speakers. All intertwined with your hands.

Exactly. You can't isolate one component as "the most critical".

It drives control freaks nuts, but once you enter the realm of sound reinforcement there are more variables than you can shake a stick at.

As an artist, if you can find some consistency in your stage sound, at least you can feel good about that. If you can clearly convey to a FOH mixer what you're aiming at, you at least have a chance that it might come out that way.

I look at playing bass in different situations as being like trying to sweep water with pushbroom. You can accomplish the general goal, but there's nothing particularly precise about it.

P. Aaron · #12 06-13-2011, 07:10 AM

You may love your tone with the rock act, but it may fall short doing that R & B gig. Unlikely, but it can happen.

prd004 · #13 06-13-2011, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seamonkey

When you mic a 4x10 you only mic one speaker. What goes through the mic is not what your ears hear. You hear all the drivers, and interference patterns from the driver configuration. Your most accurate tone is going to come off one speaker.

Great point!!!!!! I hear people on here all the time saying I have to mic my cab, I have to mic my cab, I need my sound, I need my sound.................
Not realizing the sound of their 810 is the sum of all speakers working as a unit and the mic is only picking up one speaker.
Weather you use a mic, a DI or even a post EQ DI, your FOH sound is still going to be in the hands of the soundman. It will only be as good as he is

klejst · #14 06-13-2011, 07:20 AM

Generally speaking tone comes from what kind of head, cab, what kind/brand of bass, what kind of strings you use, and any pedals you use, pick, fingers, slap, etc. A lot of things factor into how you get your specific tone. In relation to your post yes the different cab speaker configurations and open vs. sealed cabs do make a difference.

staindbass · #15 06-13-2011, 08:06 AM

i will say the speakers play the largest role in how it sounds, and the instrument second in line.

Pilgrim · #16 06-13-2011, 08:30 AM

Rank of importance in "tone" (whatever that is):

1) Fingers
2) Instrument
3) Amplification

IME switching cabs or instruments will inevitably cause some difference in sound quality (I dislike the word "tone", which is vague and has no shared meaning), but in each case, the fingers take first place. You should be able to get a pleasing sound (not an identical one) from any decent combination of instrument and amplification.

When you mic a cab, you start ANOTHER chain of events, based on what the PA operator does to the input using EQ, and depending on the qualities of the PA system used. What comes out of the PA may or may not sound very much like what came out of your cab.