Tone difference between SVT3 Pro & SVT-CL?

[Bad Seed]

I currently have a SVT3 Pro with a BBE sonic maximizer and I've been thinking of selling my rack setup for a SVT-CL, is there any big tone difference between the 2? No where local in town to try one out so can't hear the difference for myself. Just for jamming at home so no gigging because I've heard how much the CL weighs! Playing through an old Ampeg B-40 4x10 sealed cab.

Thanks

[rodl2005]

Just a quick one here. Chalk & cheese
3PRO is solid state power & sounds cool BUT NOT in the same league as the ALL TUBE power of SVT-CL. 300w of 6 x 6550 power tubes is a joy to hear-not to lift- but is SO powerful & gutsy. IMO tube power like this goes best with SEALED cabs tho- like the Ampeg SVT810, Bergantino NV610 NV215 etc....

[Bad Seed]

I didn't think it was the same, kind of like tube vs. SS in guitar amps.

Wonder if 300w all tube is overkill for jamming?

[anderbass]

Originally Posted by Bad Seed

Wonder if 300w all tube is overkill for jamming?

Yep, it probably is.

I'd suggest you keep your eyes open for a nice used 70's era Ampeg V4 or V4B. They typically sell in the $400 to $700 range, have a very similar vibe and I prefer my 100 watt V4 to both of my all-tube SVT's for lower volume situations.

[Bad Seed]

Bringing this back up

Ran across a SVT-CL at my local music store for $999. It looks pretty new and sounds awesome. For some reason, that price seems low so I'm wondering if this is a model or design that isn't desireable as much as others maybe? I REALLY want to jump on this, but I don't want a cheaper (if there is one) CL that Ampeg made.

Did they make different style SVT-CL?

I know they made some SVT3 Pro heads in Vietnam and in San Fran.

[anderbass]

The difference between the SVT-CL's and SVT-Classic models made over the past 15 years or so are all supposed to be pretty much just cosmetic and they're all fairly similar internally as far as I know. The CL's were also made overseas and It seems like the used Asian built models are sometimes less desirable on the used market... They should all say where they were made on the back.

I watch used amp prices pretty close and $1000 has actually been a pretty common price for any used SVT-CL for quite awhile. (although used gear prices are down at the moment, so I personally think $1000 is a bit high right now)

There's probably better deals out there to be found. To give you an idea, I bought a working MIA 90's SVT model w/red-blue painted SVT-Classic logo for $500 last year (the very lowest price I've ever seen) and soon re-sold it for a grand on craigslist.

You might find a few current CL asking prices in this search link: http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...Ampeg+SVT%2dCL

Personally, I'd suggest you keep your eyes open for a older SVT-II (non-pro) model. These usualy sell for less than CL's and after comparing the two I owned, I liked my older SVT-II model and my 70's SVT much better.

I'm not sure how to tell the age of the newer Loud built products, but here's some good info about the older Ampeg's :
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Ampegs can be divided into six distinct groups for dating purposes: pre-1953, 1953 to mid-1965, early 1965 to 1969, 1969 to 1979, 1981 to 1984, and post-1984. Each group uses a unique serialization scheme that can be used to assist in dating the amps, but in many cases, it is the features and characteristics of the amps that determine the year of manufacture.
Electronic Industries Association (EIA) codes can also be very useful for giving clues as to an amp's age. These codes can be found on speakers, transformers, pots, capacitors, and multi-section electrolytic "can" caps. Of course, these codes are only applicable to original components, not replacement parts.


WARNING: Ampeg amplifiers, especially the high-powered amps such as the SVT and V-series, contain lethal voltages even when unplugged and turned off. Therefore, do not poke around in your old Ampeg if you are unfamiliar with amplifier electronics or their operation.

A brief summary of the EIA system follows.

Shortly after World War II, American electronic component manufacturers began to stamp a semi-standardized code into the parts they produced. The code contained information regarding the manufacture and date of production. These codes have been used on components including potentiometers (pots), transformers, capacitors, tubes, and speakers.

The code usually consists of 6 or 7 digits such as 137634 where the first two or three digits is the EIA code for the manufacturer (137 denotes CTS), the fourth digit and sometimes fifth digit denotes the year (in this case it could be 1956, 66, or 76), and the last two digits denote the week of the year. It is important to note that parts do not always contain EIA codes, especially those parts from the late 1940s and early 1950s.

Some common manufacturer codes for parts used in Ampegs include:


Speakers: Jensen (220), CTS (137), Eminence (67), Quam (270), Rola (285), Altec (391), Electro Voice (649)
Capacitors: Pyramid (472), Cornell-Dubilier (34)
Transformers: Acrosound (878), Stancor (138), Electrical Windings (682), Todd Electric Co. (926), Standard Electric Products (668)
Pots: CTS (137), Stackpole (304)

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Pre-1953
The Michael-Hull amplifiers can be narrowed down to a date of manufacture between 1946 and 1948. These amps used a serial number system that was not used by any Ampegs. Unfortunately, the serial numbers are of little help for dating one of these pre-Ampeg models and EIA date codes on components were used sporadically during the early post WW-II years. The only date codes that seems to be readily available is found on the speaker magnet located under the bell cover.
The Ampegs made between 1949 and 1953 did not have serial numbers and must be dated in the same way as the Michael-Hull models, specifically, by finding the EIA date codes on pots, transformers, multi-section "can" capacitors, and speakers.




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1953 through mid-1965
It appears that the serialization system used during this time period is date encoded which makes dating the amplifier rather easy. The serial numbers are 6 digits in length with the following pattern: YMMNNN, where Y denotes the year, MM the month, and NNN the Nth unit produced that month. The Nth unit, however, may not have started with 001. Ampeg may very well have used 100 or 101 as the starting point during slow production periods. Nevertheless, for dating purposes, the serial number provides adequate information during this period.
For example, a Duette with serial number 710201 was made in 1957 (7), during October (10), and was possibly the 201st amp made that month. A Super Echo Twin with serial number 404553 was made in 1964 (4), during April (04) and may have been the 553th amp made that month (553).

Caution is needed for dating amps from 1953, 1954, 1955, and 1960. The serial numbers from these years were duplicated in 1963, 1964, 1965, and 1965, respectively. Taking the example Super Echo Twin above, its serial number alone could denote April 1954 or April 1964. A Mercury with serial number 009054 could be from September 1960 or it could be from the second serial number system implemented in 1965. Luckily, it is very easy to determine which year the first digit denotes.

The key is the model and the cosmetics. For instance, the Super Echo Twin was made in 1964, but not in 1954. The M-12 Mercury circuit of 1960 used 6V6 power tubes, but the Mercury circuit of 1965 used 7591As. Likewise, an Ampeg from 1954 would not be covered in blue check vinyl whereas an amp from 1964 would have this covering. An Ampeg from 1960 would be covered in navy random flair vinyl whereas an amp from 1965 would be covered in blue check vinyl. Another check for a 1960 versus a 1965 or later serial number (i.e. numbers beginning with 0) is that the second and third digits of the number denote the month in the first serial number system. Therefore, a serial number where these two digits are greater than 12 must be from the second serial number system (1965 - 69). A final cross check with EIA dated components should remove any doubt about an made during the 1953 - 65 period.



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Early 1965 through 1969
The second serial number system was implemented in January 1965 and used until the end of 1969. This system overlapped with the previous serialization scheme for a period of about 6 months. These are also 6-digit numbers, which appear to have been applied sequentially, but they are not date encoded. Enough information (serial numbers, model, date codes) has been gathered to prepare the following guide for dating by serial number. Note that the year associated with a range of serial numbers is very rough and will likely change as more information is gathered for refining the estimates. The EIA date codes of original components should be used to confirm an approximate date of manufacture.
Serial Number Range Year
000001 to 020000 1965
020000 to 049000 1966
049000 to 075000 1967
075000 to 080000 1968
080000 to 092000 1969


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1970 through 1979
The third serial number system was implemented in 1970. Not enough information was available to the authors to determine year of manufacture by serial number. An added variable is that during the Magnavox years, Ampeg may have used separate serial number systems for each model or for models that shared the same chassis like the VT-22 and V-4. Until such time that enough information is available to date 1970s Ampegs by serial number, the features of the amps from this period can be used and compared to the following table. Feature Years Used
Blue control panel graphics 1968 - 1972
Black control panel graphics with square corners 1972 - 1975
Black control panel graphics, horizontally split with rounded corners (solid state amps) 1973 - 1979
Black control panel graphics, horizontally split with rounded corners (tube amps) 1976 - 1979
Distortion control knob 1976 - 1979
White rocker switches (solid state amps) 1973 - 1979
White rocker switches (tube amps) 1976 - 1979
Black rocker switches 1968 - 1975
Metal "a" logo 1968 - 1972
Plastic "a" logo 1973 - 1979



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1981 - 1984
The MTI-era amplifiers cannot be dated by serial number. Dating by EIA date codes is impossible since the Japanese components do not carry EIA codes. However, all MTI-era Ampegs were made in the relatively short time period between late 1981 and 1984.


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Post-1984
The modern Ampegs of the St. Louis Music era were all made after 1985. The amps made since 1988 have a 10-digit serial number which is encoded for model, country, date, and year. The serial number can be broken down as follows:

Digits 1, 2, 3 = Model

Digit 4 = Country Code where:
U = U.K.
D = domestic U.S.
W = worldwide
Y = Europe

Digit 5 = Year where:
A = 1988
B = 1989
C = 1990, etc.

Digit 6 = Month where:
1 through 9 = January through September
0 = October
A = November
B = December

Digits 7, 8, 9, 10 = serial number

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[Bad Seed]

Thanks anderbass!

The serial breakdown will definitely help out a lot! I'm pretty sure the amp was made in the US, because when I talked to them about trading my SVT in, they weren't going to give me much because mine was made in vietnam. So that's when I looked on the back and I think it said san fransisco (sound right?). The only reason I was going to get this one is because it's actually at a sam ash and they are running a special on their backstage club membership card with no payments, no interest for 12 months, so I figured I'd open one up, and pay it before the 12 months. Especially since I'm selling my rack setup, that should cover more then half the payment.

I'm going to try and call up there and see if the guy will give me the serial # so I can check it out.

Thanks again!

[anderbass]

Your welcome.
I could be wrong here, but I'm thinking your remembering seeing "St. Louis Music" instead of Made in San Fransisco.

[Bad Seed]

You may be right now, I'm not 100%, but I did call the guy I deal with at sam ash and he's getting the serial # and where it was made and it is going to call me back so don't go far because I'm gonna post it up.

[Bad Seed]

well called up and the head got sold. But I did ask him if he can get one new and he said they can get me one for $1k new. For some reason that just doesn't sound right. I asked him if that was the CL all tube head and he said yes. 300w at 4 ohms, all tube he told me.

Am I dreaming here or is does the guy not know what he's talking about?

[anderbass]

I'm thinking they probably know about Ampegs current situation, and they're closing out their remaining stock at/or near dealer cost. (although lots of businesses are desperately trying to generate income any way they can about right now)

I've noticed there's all kinds of smokin deals on new and especially used items of all types at the moment. We had a working 70's SVT w/cab deal for a $1000 asking price this week on my local craigslist... I'd probably lean towards saving those payments up for awhile and looking for something like that or an SVT-II.

On the other hand, I understand you want it right now and your credit deal. I wouldn't buy any Loud produced product right now, but that IS a smoking price...

(If you haven't already, this would probably be a really good time to read these threads)
Ampeg going down the tubes ?
Loud and Ampeg.... not looking good

You know... one of those $349.99 Peavey VB-2's would probably be something to seriously consider too.
Peavey Tube Head CHEAP in La Mesa

[Bad Seed]

Originally Posted by anderbass

I'm thinking they probably know about Ampegs current situation, and they're closing out their remaining stock at/or near dealer cost. (although lots of businesses are desperately trying to generate income any way they can about right now)

I've noticed there's all kinds of smokin deals on new and especially used items of all types at the moment. We had a working 70's SVT w/cab deal for a $1000 asking price this week on my local craigslist... I'd probably lean towards saving those payments up for awhile and looking for something like that or an SVT-II.

On the other hand, I understand you want it right now and your credit deal. I wouldn't buy any Loud produced product right now, but that IS a smoking price...

(If you haven't already, this would probably be a really good time to read these threads)
Ampeg going down the tubes ?
Loud and Ampeg.... not looking good

You know... one of those $349.99 Peavey VB-2's would probably be something to seriously consider too.
Peavey Tube Head CHEAP in La Mesa

Thanks for the heads ups man, as it does sound like a smoking deal. I would rather hold off until I find a MIA ampeg, since the quality is better. Although I've never had a problem with my nam SVT3 Pro.

Although the Peavey does look tempting, I would rather hold out for a SVT classic. I love the ampeg tube sound

[Bad Seed]

Also, do you know when they started making stuff overseas?

[Bad Seed]

keeping a lookout on local craigslist and a guy is selling a 70's V4-B, haven't heard much about them. These any good?

He's selling it with a SVT-410 cab for $750, so I'd guess he'd take $400 for the head

[anderbass]

Originally Posted by Bad Seed

Just for jamming at home so no gigging because I've heard how much the CL weighs! Playing through an old Ampeg B-40 4x10 sealed cab.

Thanks

You'll find that V4B probably weighs around 60 lbs but you may actually prefer it to an SVT for jamming at home.

I own a V4 and a couple older SVT's. For lower to mid volume level playing I sometimes prefer my old V4. (pretty much the same amp as the V4B) I'd expect that V4B to have a bit less clean volume potental compared to your SVT-3, but have much more of the authentic thick rich, lush vintage Ampeg tube amp tone the SVT-3 simulates.

Here's a bunch of V4/V4B threads you should probably research:
http://www.google.com/custom?domains...ORID%3A1&hl=en

[spectorbass83]

Originally Posted by Bad Seed

...Playing through an old Ampeg B-40 4x10 sealed cab.

Not sure if anybody brought this up yet, but if your cab is 8 ohms (which I assume it is), its not recommended to run the Classic at 8 ohms. It operates safely at 4 and 2.

[Bad Seed]

Originally Posted by spectorbass83

Not sure if anybody brought this up yet, but if your cab is 8 ohms (which I assume it is), its not recommended to run the Classic at 8 ohms. It operates safely at 4 and 2.

yes my cab is 8 ohms, hmmm, I didn't think of that. I've been wanting to get a new cab anways, probably a 6x10.

Probably a good reason to do it now.

I'd like to talk to the guy about that V4B. Would that handle small gigs with no problem? I would imagine I wouldn't have a problem with a 6x10 cab, but I wonder if it would be loud enough with the 4x10?

[Bad Seed]

Originally Posted by anderbass

You'll find that V4B probably weighs around 60 lbs but you may actually prefer it to an SVT for jamming at home.

I own a V4 and a couple older SVT's. For lower to mid volume level playing I sometimes prefer my old V4. (pretty much the same amp as the V4B) I'd expect that V4B to have a bit less clean volume potental compared to your SVT-3, but have much more of the authentic thick rich, lush vintage Ampeg tube amp tone the SVT-3 simulates.

Here's a bunch of V4/V4B threads you should probably research:
http://www.google.com/custom?domains...ORID%3A1&hl=en

I'll check out those threads too

You've been a lot of help, thanks man!

[Bad Seed]

Hey guys, thought I'd update

Went and checked out the V-4B head the guy had on craigslist for sale, everything seemed to work ok and sounded awesome, so I went ahead and bought it. Managed to get the head and a SVT410HE cab for $675 so I didn't think it was too bad. I plan on cleaning the cab up and re-selling it as I don't need it.

I did stack the V-4B on my old B40 cab and it sounds VERY nice! Haven't really any time to tinker with it but so far I like it a lot. I A/B'ed it with the SVT3 Pro and you can definitely hear the tube difference between the 2.

Few small things I need to work out on the V-4B though, the power light isn't working, and when it does, it flickers. The mid range swtich doesn't seem to be working, nor does the polarity switch. What does the polarity switch actually do?

I'll snap some pics and post them.