Tone Problems, Need Help

colbyAKAbobby · #1 07-21-2011, 10:52 PM

I am currently using a Fender Rumble 100 amplifier with a Epiphone Thunderbird Pro IV. I am almost always unhappy with the tone I get from this setup, and am pretty green at terminology and don't know what to do to fix it. Is it something I can change with the gear I have already? Or should I upgrade my bass? My amp? Let me know and feel free to ask me questions and be thorough.

JimmyM · #2 07-21-2011, 11:19 PM

Only you can make the determination if it's the amp or bass. Could be both, or it could be you just haven't hit the right tweak on your stuff to make you like it. What sound are you looking for?

colbyAKAbobby · #3 07-21-2011, 11:29 PM

Well, my band and I were recording at the beginning of July, and my guitarist who knows far much more then I do, stated that he likes a more vintage bass sound, and that the modern sound isn't to his liking. I don't know much about anything, but I agree. With my lack of knowledge, it is hard for me to describe the sound we were able to get out of the gear the guy who was recording us had. I can message him and ask what exactly it was I was plugged into. But for know, I guess you could say my tone is too dirty for me and I want it more smooth. I really love the way my bass plays and would prefer if I needed a new amplifier. I'll get back to you as soon as I know what I was plugged into while recording.

dmusic148 · #4 07-21-2011, 11:29 PM

My guess it it's EQ, people seem to like the amp, and i have the bass, and it's not bad at all.
Do you have the 'Mid Scoop' button pressed? If so, turn it off- it takes all the guts out of your sound. Just set every control on the amp to 12 oclock.
Then turn up both pickups to full, and back the tone knob off about half way. See how that works.

colbyAKAbobby · #5 07-21-2011, 11:31 PM

Thanks dmusic148. I'll give that a try once I get back home.

BINJ · #6 07-21-2011, 11:32 PM

What does it sound like now that you are unhappy with and what are you looking to get out of it? The Thunderbirds can be dialed in but in general they have a fairly distinct sound that some love and some not so much but unless we have some more information we have no way of really knowing.

My advice would be either borrow some gear from friends or go to the music store and find a setup that sounds good to you. Then try your bass through the amp you used to get the sound you liked and try the bass you liked through your amp. Then you will know if it's the bass, the amp, or both that you're unhappy with.

dmusic148 · #7 07-21-2011, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colbyAKAbobby

With my lack of knowledge, it is hard for me to describe the sound we were able to get out of the gear the guy who was recording us had..

It's called the 'Direct' sound, plus the effects he had you going through(EQ and compression most likely). Then you heard it through studio monitors, I assume?
Bottom line is, you can't get THAT sound from your amp no matter how hard you try, but you CAN get a decent sound for live use.

colbyAKAbobby · #8 07-21-2011, 11:37 PM

Hey, BINJ. I'm going to have to ask what 'dialed in' means. Like I said, green.

air_leech · #9 07-21-2011, 11:45 PM

I'd check the strings first.
strings are the cheapest component in your "tone chain" and have a far bigger share in overall tone than their price may imply.
dead strings can make a 10K bass sound bad and vice' a' vice - fresh strings can make a 300$ bass sound great.

another thing to keep in mind - type of strings.
a "dirty" tone is a subjective perception and since your amp is not a tube amp I suspect the dirtiness you are speaking about may be the 'clankiness' of stainless steel strings.
I highly recommend trying nickel plated strings if you want to tame an aggressive high range response. the strings' core also has effect on sound but I wouldn't worry about that, I'd get a good nickel set (I love DR Lo-Riders Nickel) and see if that helps before submitting to a more expansive gear purchase.

colbyAKAbobby · #10 07-21-2011, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by air_leech

I'd check the strings first.
strings are the cheapest component in your "tone chain" and have a far bigger share in overall tone than their price may imply.
dead strings can make a 10K bass sound bad and vice' a' vice - fresh strings can make a 300$ bass sound great.

another thing to keep in mind - type of strings.
a "dirty" tone is a subjective perception and since your amp is not a tube amp I suspect the dirtiness you are speaking about may be the 'clankiness' of stainless steel strings.
I highly recommend trying nickel plated strings if you want to tame an aggressive high range response. the strings' core also has effect on sound but I wouldn't worry about that, I'd get a good nickel set (I love DR Lo-Riders Nickel) and see if that helps before submitting to a more expansive gear purchase.

This is funny. I am currently using Regular Slinky Ernie Balls. The nickel on the strings irritates my hands, as I am allergic to nickel. I just bought $50 Elixir strings with Nanoweb technology, to see how they sound/irritate my hands. I'll let you guys know when I put them on tomorrow.

will33 · #11 07-22-2011, 12:01 AM

+1 on dead strings, possibly the biggest difference you'll ever make in your tone.

How do you have your pickup volumes and tone knobs set? Do you know what the tone knob does? The more you turn it down the less treble you have. Being recoreded direct means your bass signal is sent straight into the mixing board/ recording equipment. Your bass amp is meaningless in this case unless it has a mic in front of it.

electracoyote · #12 07-22-2011, 12:05 AM

1. Don't turn the amp up too loud. Don't introduce distortion.

2. Set all your EQ flat, no boost buttons or presence knob action. Just a flat EQ.

3. Open up both pickups and roll the tone on your T-Bird. Don't open the tone up wide. That is a trebly bass. This is probably what your guitarist is objecting to.

4. Learn to play a flatter tone and see how it sits in the mix.

5. If this doesn't work, let your more experienced guitar player help you dial in a better tone.

In short, I doubt it's your gear. You should be able to get several useable tones from that rig.

slapmachine · #13 07-22-2011, 12:09 AM

Just mess with the tonal shaping (a.k.a. the knobs that read "bass" or "low" "mid" and / or "high")! Set all the knobs so the marker on the knob is facing the ceiling, and then slightly turn the knobs right and left until it's the sound that you really want. I have done that on almost all the amps I've ever played, and it's the best way to get your sound from the individual amp. I've made 200 dollar chinese amp heads sound good by eq-ing (setting tone levels EX: low, mid, high, treble) them for a little bit. It makes a world of difference and has broadened my range of adaptability to a situation when you need to use another amp in a pinch.

Best of luck with your tonal search and your allergy to nickel =/

Best regards,

Brooks

JimmyM · #14 07-22-2011, 12:11 AM

Dialed in means getting the knobs dialed to your liking.

kosmicwizard · #15 07-22-2011, 12:14 AM

I use Elixir strings and love them ... Some people say they sound dead right out of the box, but when you are still playing that same set 4 years later and it sounds the same whereas they have gone through 8 sets of strings who is better off? As a newb use the search function here on TB, and be prepared to do a lot of reading. Then go to a music store and since you like your bass a lot bring it and try it through as many amps as you are able, also try to focus on the amps here that you think are interesting. Try an Ampeg SVT 2 Pro, a Genz-Benz Streamliner 600 or Mesa/Boogie Walkabout, and a Gallien-Krueger 700Rb-II. Then try the head you like best with different cabinets, and then once you know what you are looking for tonally, read more and then ask more questions. All the best. Cheers.

colbyAKAbobby · #16 07-22-2011, 12:15 AM

Could someone explain exactly what each knob does on my T-Bird? There is four. I can hear the difference they make but don't know what to call it.

will33 · #17 07-22-2011, 12:40 AM

Of your bass doesn't have a battery in it that will be a separate volume and tone knob for each pickup. If it does have a battery on it, it will likely be a master volume knob for,the whole bass and a bass, mid, and treble like your amp has, or a separate volume for each pickup and a bass and treble knob (no mid knob) that controls both.

colbyAKAbobby · #18 07-22-2011, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will33

Of your bass doesn't have a battery in it that will be a separate volume and tone knob for each pickup. If it does have a battery on it, it will likely be a master volume knob for,the whole bass and a bass, mid, and treble like your amp has, or a separate volume for each pickup and a bass and treble knob (no mid knob) that controls both.

Yeah, it's an active bass. My guess would be a master volume, then a bass, mid and treble. Makes my job of testing things out more tedious.

colbyAKAbobby · #19 07-22-2011, 12:49 AM

With all this new info, I can't wait to get home and do some testing. Should I listen through headphones when I'm fiddling with tone? I do play in a garage. If that makes a difference.

will33 · #20 07-22-2011, 12:56 AM

Listen to it as many different ways as you can, it'll help train your ears but the one that really matters is how it sounds playing with the rest of the band at a gig with hopefully more than a few people shaking their butt's around soaking up sound and having fun.