Tone similarities? SWR WorkingPro 4OO and 350X

[baddarryl]

I was at the music store yesterday and this dude was plugged into a 350X and a Mesa 1x12. The tone was unbelievable. He was plugged into with an 80's Jazz bass. Now my question is how similar is the tone with that 350x and my Working Pro 400 (which I overall like, but not growly enough)? There was a growl coming out that I just don't get with my Peavey Foundation (super ferrites). His settings were vary similar to what I run.

If the 2 are fairly similar then it must have been that Jazz bass and now I have finely found a reason to get one! I have never liked the feel of Fenders, but man that tone! Thanks all.

Is this an amp or bass thread? Lol!

[RickenBoogie]

Tone is very subjective, and comes from many things, players hand, the bass, strings, etc, amp, and the speaker cab. It's impossible to really answer your question, but SWR amps all have SWR flavor.

[lowfreqgeek]

The tube in the SWR will give it a little low-mid boost and more growl, but the effect is subtle. IMO, it's a little warmer, not quite as harsh, and basically more "pleasing", but that's pretty subjective (I did say IMO).

How can I make these claims? Well, there are 2 inputs on the Bass 350 (predecessor to the 350X). Passive input goes through the tube to the balanced line driver (DI), active input goes straight to the line-driver, bypassing the tube. By monitoring the DI output pre-EQ and switching back and forth, I got a good feel for what the tube was doing to the signal.

The Workingman series is tube-less, and knowing the original SWR designs as well as I do, I suspect it goes right to the TL072 gain stage - just like the 350, but without the tube in the path.

The Aural Enhancer is nothing more than a frequency-selective gain control for the 2nd stage of the tube, so there is additional tube saturation added by the AE circuit as it's turned up on the 350. I don't know what the WM400 has in place of the tube for that saturation, or if it's simply an EQ with no added saturation.

So, I think the WM400 is going to basically sound a little less warm, a little less growly, and have a little less harmonic richness (think of it as harmonic depth). It will be clean and clear, but won't gain anything that the tube brings. I don't think it's "inferior", it's just a different, albeit cheaper, way to do it that will still provide the essence of the SWR sound through the use of the AE tone stack (or filter, as it is).

Hope that helps.

[baddarryl]

Thanks so much for your input. I think the only way to solves this is to take my head in there and A/B them with that bass. Hell I might have to walk out with both! Damn I need a $ tree!

[KJung]

Originally Posted by baddarryl

I was at the music store yesterday and this dude was plugged into a 350X and a Mesa 1x12. The tone was unbelievable. He was plugged into with an 80's Jazz bass. Now my question is how similar is the tone with that 350x and my Working Pro 400 (which I overall like, but not growly enough)? There was a growl coming out that I just don't get with my Peavey Foundation (super ferrites). His settings were vary similar to what I run.

If the 2 are fairly similar then it must have been that Jazz bass and now I have finely found a reason to get one! I have never liked the feel of Fenders, but man that tone! Thanks all.

Is this an amp or bass thread? Lol!

The 'x' series of SWR are kind of their 'rock' voiced heads. They have a bit of grit and grind to them (the 750x is provided a lot as backline so I've gigged that head quite a bit). Your Pro400 (nice head) is modeled (IMO AND IME) more on the classic SWR tone... wide, clean, crisp. Quite different IMO.

Even though the original, classic SWR's had a tube in the pre, it seemed to have minimal impact on the tone (I believe it was a similar design to the Eden tube... kind of a side chain type thing that didn't really impact the tone (it didn't change the voltage are something like that). That's why you never hear about guys rolling tubes in SWR and Eden heads... doesn't really change anything IMO.

[Jim Carr]

Originally Posted by KJung

...Even though the original, classic SWR's had a tube in the pre, it seemed to have minimal impact on the tone...kind of a side chain type thing that didn't really impact the tone...That's why you never hear about guys rolling tubes in SWR...heads...doesn't really change anything...

OT: I found that tube rolling did matter with my SWR 350 (circa 2000 build). It made an amazing difference when I replaced the original, using tubes from a selection of 4 12AX7s (Mesa, Groove, Mullard, Sovtek, IIRC).

Back to the OP's question. I found a lot of difference in tone between the older pro SWR 350 head I have, and one I considered buying—a WM4004, not a WP400. I just couldn't get the the same rich warmth from the 4004. I also found the parametric Mid control on the 350 more to my liking—not sure why. The cab I used to test them side by side was an Aguilar 112.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Jim Carr

OT: I found that tube rolling did matter with my SWR 350 (circa 2000 build). It made an amazing difference when I replaced the original, using tubes from a selection of 4 12AX7s (Mesa, Groove, Mullard, Sovtek, IIRC).

Back to the OP's question. I found a lot of difference in tone between the older pro SWR 350 head I have, and one I considered buying—a WM4004, not a WP400. I just couldn't get the the same rich warmth from the 4004. I also found the parametric Mid control on the 350 more to my liking—not sure why. The cab I used to test them side by side was an Aguilar 112.

Not familiar with that amp. I was talking more about the 400/500 and 900, which I think used that sort of 'marketing tube' sort of gimmick like the Edens, where the tube was wired in such a way as to not impact the voltage at all. There was a bit thread on this a while back.

Anyway, the point being the 350x and 400pro sound quite different.

[Jim Carr]

Originally Posted by KJung

...Anyway, the point being the 350x and 400pro sound quite different.

+1

No doubt. I wonder if the WP 400, WM 4004 share similar power sections like the 350 and 350x do?

[baddarryl]

BTW I LOVE the tone of my WP400. Just wish it had a little more growl. Maybe I see a SanAmp in my future...........Thanks for your help everyone.