Too loud or too much in the mids?

[JoshuaTSP]

At what point do you cut too much by boosting mids? and at what point are you just plain too loud?

[Lo-E]

I don't think there's a universal answer to either of those questions.

[JoshuaTSP]

In that case, do you follow any guidelines when setting a stage volume....with or without PA?

Sometimes, I don't think I'm very loud, but end up being loud.

[Sundogue]

I always base my volume on the drummer.

I EQ based on the overall mix of who I'm playing with...which can affect volume, so it requires a readjustment.

Without a PA (which for me is in a hard rock blues band trio), I adjust my volume and tone based on the drummer and my tonal preference.

With a PA (which for me is a 5 piece hard rock, high volume gig) I mute myself in the PA, adjust volume for drummer for onstage mix, tone to fit in well with two guitars and keyboards, then un-mute in the PA and pump up the volume in the PA as required.

I tend to dig in too much if I'm not at a bit higher volume, so I prefer to turn up and have my rig do the work so I can play lighter and with more subtlety.

Of course, I use cabs that put out some nice deep, clear and true low end (sub 100Hz) with an ear splitting dedicated mid driver, so I don't feel the need to boost the mids unnecessarily just to be heard. If anything, I may cut the mids a bit. But really, onstage I don't want to be any louder than what the drummer can put out acoustically and everyone else should adjust accordingly.

Don't know if that helps you at all.

[megadan]

Talking about volume on the internet is silly.


Generally when you boost the mids too much you get that ugly, cheap sound. Cut too much and you get 'bedroom tone' - sounds great alone but gets lost in the mix.

The key is not just finding the right balance, but finding a bass and more importantly an amp that produces 'complex' or nice sounding mids. Cheap amps produce nasty mids, but the right amp produces the nice mids. Some of my favorites mids amps would be the vintage SVTs and the GK 800s.

[will33]

Originally Posted by Sundogue

I always base my volume on the drummer.

I EQ based on the overall mix of who I'm playing with...which can affect volume, so it requires a readjustment.

Without a PA (which for me is in a hard rock blues band trio), I adjust my volume and tone based on the drummer and my tonal preference.

With a PA (which for me is a 5 piece hard rock, high volume gig) I mute myself in the PA, adjust volume for drummer for onstage mix, tone to fit in well with two guitars and keyboards, then un-mute in the PA and pump up the volume in the PA as required.

I tend to dig in too much if I'm not at a bit higher volume, so I prefer to turn up and have my rig do the work so I can play lighter and with more subtlety.

Of course, I use cabs that put out some nice deep, clear and true low end (sub 100Hz) with an ear splitting dedicated mid driver, so I don't feel the need to boost the mids unnecessarily just to be heard. If anything, I may cut the mids a bit. But really, onstage I don't want to be any louder than what the drummer can put out acoustically and everyone else should adjust accordingly.

Don't know if that helps you at all.

This is about the best advice there is.

I'd just add that when doing a gig where your rig is playing the house, in addition to balancing levels with the drummer, know how your tone sits out front. That means have a long cord, a wireless or a trusted pair of ears out there for sound check. You'll find what sounds really good out front is often a little middy or bass shy up close to the rig where you're standing. Likewise what sounds good to you on stage can get a bit woofy, undefined out front and not sit as well in the mix. It's a rare case where it sounds good in both places. I set it so it sounds good to the audience and if that means a bit less than stellar sound where I'm standing, so be it.

[rodl2005]

Originally Posted by megadan

Cut too much and you get 'bedroom tone' - sounds great alone but gets lost in the mix.

Sounds like a very popular amp out at the moment. Sounds great on it's own, but..........

I'll just go dig my grave ;-x

[Sartori]

For me, it really depends who I'm playing with.

With my folk rock band, I leave the mids flat and boost the lows just slightly, because there's not a whole lot of low end content in the mix besides myself, so mid-boosting isn't necessary.

For my metal bands, I generally boost the mids much higher so that what I'm playing can be clearly heard without overpowering everything with gobs of lows.

[JimmyM]

In my case, if every note doesn't pop out to where I can hear it without straining, I'll boost mids until I can. Then I stop. Tis a fine line between just right and too much.

[rodl2005]

+1, it IS a fine line. Good ears are essential. :-)

[Gearhead17]

+10 to Sundogue's quote.

If you can not hear a semi-loud guitarist next to you and hear yourself TOO WELL, then you can stand to turn your volume down. It's something you have to learn on your own show to show. I usually set my tone up to cut through then turn it down so I can still hear myself well, but can still hear everyone else clearly. I also tend to dig in more if I can not hear myself well.

The other thing to keep in mind - the quieter on stage you are, the louder the sound guy can make you in the PA system.

[chaosMK]

If you are trying to cut through a high gain guitarist and an insane drummer... this question isn't that relevant.

[4Mal]

Wireless. Get out front and listen at least during the aound check. I am often mixing from the stage so i wander out from from time to time.

[ErnieD]

Originally Posted by rodl2005

Sounds like a very popular amp out at the moment. Sounds great on it's own, but..........

I'll just go dig my grave ;-x

NOW, NOW, no sour grapes, rodl. You gave it a good go and I gave you props for that. But don't start doggin "that head" now. Its working way too well for way too many of us. Just didn't work for you.

Onward and upward Matey.

[AwkwardLoudness]

I just give earplugs to all of the fans in attendance before unleashing the ear-splitting loudness. I like to be able to hear the low-mids and mids of the bass though.

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

In my case, if every note doesn't pop out to where I can hear it without straining, I'll boost mids until I can. Then I stop. Tis a fine line between just right and too much.

Yeah, I do something like this - I set my amp up so that it sounds good to me, then *usually* add a little mids(once we start playing) so that I can hear myself well enough in the mix without resorting to overpowering volume...

Like Jimmy said - not enough mids, and it's hard to hear yourself in a band mix - too much, and it doesn't sound good...


- georgestrings

[JoshuaTSP]

The reason I ask is that I don't feel like I'm ever THAT loud....but was told at the gig that I was |-| that much too loud.

I was thinking it was because of the retarded amounts of mids I use....plus fuzz and overdrive pedals....which probably compounds that mids effect.

To me, it sounds good. I'm filling a little of the sonic area a 2nd guitar player would fill.....intentionally.

So either I back off the volume, or back off the mids a little?

[rpsands]

If you're doing the room, you want it to balance out front.

If you're doing stage volume, turn up until you mesh well with the kick drum and cymbals. Otherwise, turn down.

Your mids may need to come up or down depending on the volume you end up at. The louder you are, the more mids you will need typically (lows become more present the louder you get). Your mids may need to come up or down depending on how the room reflections are working out.

I typically set my eq based on the volume of acoustic drums at gig volume and I can go a little up or a little down without having to adjust.

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by JoshuaTSP

The reason I ask is that I don't feel like I'm ever THAT loud....but was told at the gig that I was |-| that much too loud.

I was thinking it was because of the retarded amounts of mids I use....plus fuzz and overdrive pedals....which probably compounds that mids effect.

To me, it sounds good. I'm filling a little of the sonic area a 2nd guitar player would fill.....intentionally.

So either I back off the volume, or back off the mids a little?

A couple of things I've picked up from gigging as a bassist:

Very few people want to hear more bass than anything else - it's generally supposed to sit in the mix, not overpower it...

If you're hearing yourself really well on stage, you *might* be too loud - I know it sucks to think of it that way, but in most band situations, it seems to work out that way... I usually play loud enough to hear the notes I'm playing, and no louder - and mix-wise, it seems to work out well that way...

YMMV, but that's how it seems to work out for me...

Disclaimer: I ALWAYS go thru a good PA, so *my* situation might be a little different than some people's... If you're carrying the room with your backline, and people are making suggestions - unless you can get out there with a wireless and verify or disregard what they're saying, it *might* be a good idea to take those suggestions into account...


- georgestrings

[JoshuaTSP]

another thing to consider is that our clean volume to dirty volume is fairly drastic.

When I kick in my dirt pedals, my rig really starts to growl.