Too much Bro Love for 12's?

[arai]

Smells like a ____ thread

[JTE]

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

Here's where I'm coming from: You're the bassist. You don't need to "struggle to find a frequency range to call (your) own". Your frequency range is already defined for you. It's call "bass". If you're having difficulty getting heard in the mix, it's because one or more of those clowns is stepping all over your territory. Either fix the real problem - at the source - or live with the consequences. That's it. MM

My instrument is called "bass", and the fundamentals of many of the notes I need to play are indeed below the guitars (but only by one octave- even with my 5-string, it's only sixteen notes between my lowest and the guitars' lowest notes)- plus keyboards also have notes in the same range as I play in.

But, and this is a critical factor that relates to the discussion of "finding a frequency"- the overtones that not only distinguish the electric bass from a kick drum thump or a Hammond organ pedal, but also differentiate a Precision with flats from a Precision with rounds, and more importantly MY Precision from another Precision, are WELL above the fundamentals of the notes we play. That's why I despise the "You play bass, you don't need a tweeter" mentality.

It's not simply about "stay out of my range" it's always about the BAND having a cohesive sound that allows all the instruments to be heard in the optimal musical manner.

John

[Lublin]

Originally Posted by vin*tone

Yes. The guitarist.

ZING!

[Danno1985]

Originally Posted by R Baer

In bands where the guitarist has been a cooperative type, I've had amazing results improving the live stage sound, by just getting the guitarist to put his amp on a small tilt back stand. Aim those drivers at his head, instead of his knees and the volume comes right down immediately.

Word. I play guitar as well, and found out a long time ago that everyone's happier when the guitarist sets their amp up for the audience's benefit, not their ego. IE, tilt backs if equipped, amp stand for smaller amps, amp located far enough back so that the guitarist has a better idea of how it's sitting in the mix then when he's standing right next to it.

However, I have played bass with so many guitarists who bring something like a Deluxe Reverb to a gig, insist that their amp needs to be "coupled to the stage" for maximum "bass response", set it up on the ground by their feet, and then have the eq scooped. Then the whole night they're complaining about how they can't hear themselves. No **** sherlock; aim the amp away from your feet, add some mids, turn down the volume and get off my turf, jackass! Some people are so stubborn though about bringing their "bedroom" tone settings onto the stage though, and it just doesn't work.

[HolmeBass]

You're making a mistake in thinking that the driver diameter is the most significant, or even a significant, parameter in determining a speaker cabinet's voicing. It isn't. Just ask yourself- do all 4x10's really sound the same? No, they don't. Neither do all 2x12's, 1x15's, etc.

[TRyan5289]

Originally Posted by CL400Peavey

My guitards have full stacks... One day I got to practice early and disconnected their bottom cabs. With the top 412 still pointed at their head they didnt even notice that they were running one cab, but did remark that volume was really in check that day.

This would be a good way to get into a fight with me. When your running expensive sensitive equipment, you have be sure your ohms match. If you blew up my Marshall head and cab, you'd be out $2,400, and get your you know what kicked.

[nostatic]

That may be the first time I've seen a Marshall referred to as "sensitive equipment."

[Clammy]

Originally Posted by CL400Peavey

My guitards have full stacks... One day I got to practice early and disconnected their bottom cabs. With the top 412 still pointed at their head they didnt even notice that they were running one cab, but did remark that volume was really in check that day.

That's a total douche move. If you did that to my gear in my band, you would be an ex-member immediately. Plus, you'd have to pay for any damage caused by an impedance mismatch.

[Clammy]

Originally Posted by nostatic

That may be the first time I've seen a Marshall referred to as "sensitive equipment."

They are, especially to impedance mismatches. Think blown output transformers.

Cheers!

[Russell L]

I'm in three bands presently, and I have made it known that two things I won't tolerate are playing too loud and others eq'ing in my territory. I've already gotten snide remarks from one guitarist about it, but he knows I'll walk if he continues to step on my toes. And I have to remind the keyboard player always about his left hand.

Why is it so hard for everyone to understand?

[will33]

Umm.....pretty sure those amps have selector switches or different jacks for different transformer taps.

Also pretty sure most bass players that've been at it for a while know what impedance is. Very sure that particular bass player does.


Also pretty sure the guitarists in question did not check the back of their rigs that day. Something any sensibile person would do who was concerned with impedance and running 8 drivers........as evidenced by the claim that they didn't notice a volume difference in their own equipment but did comment on the overall volume/mix.

My guitarist uses a 412. He also knows that a volume knob goes both ways. Any guitarist who shows up to my place with a pair of 412's is getting one of them unplugged immediately. If they don't keep the volume in check with the remaining one, they aren't asked back, plain and simple. My ears are worth more than somebodys " tone, man.".

[Danno1985]

Originally Posted by Clammy

That's a total douche move.

True, and I'd fly off the handle as well if someone unplugged something of mine, but an equally douchey move IMO is bringing 2 or more 4X12s to pretty much ANY gig, unless it's the late 60s, your last name is Page, Clapton, Beck, Hendrix, etc, and you're playing to 100,000 people in a huge field with just a crap underpowered 60s PA for support.

[Clammy]

Originally Posted by will33

Umm.....pretty sure those amps have selector switches or different jacks for different transformer taps.

Also pretty sure most bass players that've been at it for a while know what impedance is. Very sure that particular bass player does.


Also pretty sure the guitarists in question did not check the back of their rigs that day. Something any sensibile person would do who was concerned with impedance and running 8 drivers........as evidenced by the claim that they didn't notice a volume difference in their own equipment but did comment on the overall volume/mix.

My guitarist uses a 412. He also knows that a volume knob goes both ways. Any guitarist who shows up to my place with a pair of 412's is getting one of them unplugged immediately. If they don't keep the volume in check with the remaining one, they aren't asked back, plain and simple. My ears are worth more than somebodys " tone, man.".

That's not the point. You simply do NOT screw around with another person's gear. That is a douche move, and it's a non-negotiable rule with me. You mess with my rig, expect negative consequences.

[Clammy]

Originally Posted by Danno1985

an equally douchey move IMO is bringing 2 or more 4X12s to pretty much ANY gig, unless it's the late 60s, your last name is Page, Clapton, Beck, Hendrix, etc, and you're playing to 100,000 people in a huge field with just a crap underpowered 60s PA for support.

I disagree.

Cheers!

[TRyan5289]

Originally Posted by will33

Also pretty sure the guitarists in question did not check the back of their rigs that day. Something any sensibile person would do who was concerned with impedance and running 8 drivers........as evidenced by the claim that they didn't notice a volume difference in their own equipment but did comment on the overall volume/mix.

Yes, my Marshall has an impedance selector. But if I set it up to run at two ohms and you pull the plug on one of the cabs, its not going to be a good thing. When I set something up, I don't expect people (band members) to mess with my equipment without asking. When you have a vintage piece of history, you usually want to keep it in original condition. I'd be pissed if my 50w tube Marshall were to go down.

No disrespect, just wanted to clarify. Sorry for the detrailing the train.

[will33]

Originally Posted by Clammy

That's not the point. You simply do NOT screw around with another person's gear. That is a douche move, and it's a non-negotiable rule with me. You mess with my rig, expect negative consequences.

Originally Posted by TRyan5289

Yes, my Marshall has an impedance selector. But if I set it up to run at two ohms and you pull the plug on one of the cabs, its not going to be a good thing. When I set something up, I don't expect people (band members) to mess with my equipment without asking. When you have a vintage piece of history, you usually want to keep it in original condition. I'd be pissed if my 50w tube Marshall were to go down.

No disrespect, just wanted to clarify. Sorry for the detrailing the train.

I get this^^ feel the same way about my stuff. Then again, people ask me to mess with their gear or explain how it works if I start saying something they don't understand.

If some nutjob endangers my hearing...and doesn't realize it because they've already made themselves deaf....their gear is getting messed with, I don't care what it is. Assuming one of us just leaving for some reason can't happen immediately.

I like loud as much as the next guy....when it's appropriate....it's fun. 812's have no place anywhere that seats less than 10,000. Last I checked, I can't fit that many people in my house, or anywhere I play regularly.

[Clammy]

Originally Posted by will33

If some nutjob endangers my hearing...and doesn't realize it because they've already made themselves deaf....their gear is getting messed with, I don't care what it is. Assuming one of us just leaving for some reason can't happen immediately.

I like loud as much as the next guy....when it's appropriate....it's fun. 812's have no place anywhere that seats less than 10,000. Last I checked, I can't fit that many people in my house, or anywhere I play regularly.

You should never touch another person's gear without their permission. I understand not wanting your hearing blown out (I wear custom fit ear plugs at rehearsal), and you should be able to find middle ground with any reasonable person. If you can't work it out by talking to them, then the answer is to move on, or have them move on.

I have ALWAYS used full stacks from the tiniest bars to 30000+ outdoor festivals. Often, I've used, multiple full stacks (both when I used to play guitar and now that I play bass). I simply adjusted the volume as necessary. Did I NEED the full stacks? Nope. But, a big part of playing live is the vibe, and being that I've always played in loud Metal bands, a big part of that vibe is the "Wall of Marshalls". Both for the band and the audience.

Cheers!

[kai_ski]

Originally Posted by nostatic

That may be the first time I've seen a Marshall referred to as "sensitive equipment."

+1

This thread should be titled "Too much bro love for Marshall guitar stacks."

[Warmuth]

Originally Posted by Clammy

You should never touch another person's gear without their permission. I understand not wanting your hearing blown out (I wear custom fit ear plugs at rehearsal), and you should be able to find middle ground with any reasonable person. If you can't work it out by talking to them, then the answer is to move on, or have them move on.

I have ALWAYS used full stacks from the tiniest bars to 30000+ outdoor festivals. Often, I've used, multiple full stacks (both when I used to play guitar and now that I play bass). I simply adjusted the volume as necessary. Did I NEED the full stacks? Nope. But, a big part of playing live is the vibe, and being that I've always played in loud Metal bands, a big part of that vibe is the "Wall of Marshalls". Both for the band and the audience.

Cheers!

+1 There's a local band here doing their own gigs in a tricked out warehouse and the guitarist is rocking a full 800 stack. It's rude, loud, obnoxious and absolutely glorious.

[will33]

Originally Posted by Clammy

You should never touch another person's gear without their permission. I understand not wanting your hearing blown out (I wear custom fit ear plugs at rehearsal), and you should be able to find middle ground with any reasonable person. If you can't work it out by talking to them, then the answer is to move on, or have them move on.

I have ALWAYS used full stacks from the tiniest bars to 30000+ outdoor festivals. Often, I've used, multiple full stacks (both when I used to play guitar and now that I play bass). I simply adjusted the volume as necessary. Did I NEED the full stacks? Nope. But, a big part of playing live is the vibe, and being that I've always played in loud Metal bands, a big part of that vibe is the "Wall of Marshalls". Both for the band and the audience.

Cheers!

I get it. With some random person, I would absolutely agree.

I'm also sort of the resident sound guy and jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none type "tech" in our little band. Nobody has any problem at all with me messing with their gear or instruments. I'm either fixing something, making the sound better, or otherwise doing something beneficial. I suppose you could call that a sort of "blanket permission" to mess with stuff, but I don't ask, I just do.

I also appreciate rock-n-roll excess. I would much rather see a wall of Marshalls, even if most of them were fakes, than see some artsy motif and no amps......even if one could do ampless gigs.


Bottom line.....if someone is making me deaf, and they don't do anything about it...I will.


I shall enjoy music when I am an old man. It's their choice to give that up and instead hear some combination of nothing, and a constant annoying ringing sound.