Tossed out of "Eden"...

CosmicRay · #1 10-07-2011, 09:05 AM

My issue may be unique, probably not. My Eden D410XLT cab, just about a year old, recently crapped out on a gig. The speakers literally fell apart, disintegrated into pieces. Not cool.
I was told it's not under warranty, which is another issue onto itself. Needless to say how I feel about Eden right now....and believe me, I was not over-driving this cab. I play through an Eden WT800C, keeping everything flat with master & gain around 1:00 - (just f.y.i. Mr. David Eden & USA Music Corp) -
My next course of action is to find out how I can replace the four speakers with those that I removed from an Epifani cab, but is not the same ohms.
The Epi was 8 ohm, the Eden is 4 ohm. My concern is about the tweeter and crossover.
Does anyone have any advice as how to do this properly?
My end game is to sell the Eden....without it coming back to bite me...or frying someones amp.

billfitzmaurice · #2 10-07-2011, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicRay

My Eden D410XLT cab, just about a year old, recently crapped out on a gig. The speakers literally fell apart, disintegrated into pieces.

That can only happen with serious overpowering, which wouldn't be covered under warranty anyway. As for just tossing some other random drivers in there, bad idea. Besides the impedance and crossover issues they may just plain not work well at all, cab and drivers are designed to work together. You should investigate getting the Eden drivers re-coned.
And there is no Mr. David Eden. The name was originally applied to one product, the David (as in David and Goliath), made by Eden, expanded to apply to a full line.

Russell L · #3 10-07-2011, 09:57 AM

Well, just my two cents here (and I'm no expert), but I never run my master past noon on my Little Mark II (CMD 121H combo). This is just a "for instance." I set the gain at about 1:00 because that's just under when it would clip when I play hardest. Then, my master comes up to about 11:00 at the most. With the eq set flat I can still make the 12" in my 121H combo clank if I slap the strings. Now, your eq may have more bottom in it than mine when set "flat" (so-called). So, depending on that and how you pluck or slap the string you could be sending a strong spike through those speakers. I'm not faulting you or criticizing, please don't think that, but just saying that some parameters may not be what they seem to be. Hope you get it sorted, pal.

billfitzmaurice · #4 10-07-2011, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russell L

Well, just my two cents here (and I'm no expert), but I never run my master past noon on my Little Mark II (CMD 121H combo). This is just a "for instance." I set the gain at about 1:00 because that's just under when it would clip when I play hardest. Then, my master comes up to about 11:00 at the most. With the eq set flat I can still make the 12" in my 121H combo clank if I slap the strings. Now, your eq may have more bottom in it than mine when set "flat" (so-called). So, depending on that and how you pluck or slap the string you could be sending a strong spike through those speakers. I'm not faulting you or criticizing, please don't think that, but just saying that some parameters may not be what they seem to be. Hope you get it sorted, pal.

+1. The volume and EQ settings don't tell you how much power you're actually putting out. Probably more to the point in the OPs case, the thermal rating of speakers doesn't relate to how much power, and at what frequencies, drivers can suffer mechanical damage. The proof is in the pudding. If you damage your drivers you're trying to get more out of them than they're capable of giving.

bobcruz · #5 10-07-2011, 10:50 AM

Ray, if you were bridging your WT800C into a 4-ohm cabinet, you'd have 1100 watts RMS, 2200 watts peak going into a cabinet rated 700 watts thermal (therefore possibly half that when it hits Xmax and starts to distort on low notes). And full wattage is always available from an amp no matter where the master volume is set; the position of the volume knob only determines how strong a signal is needed from the preamp to reach full volume. So yeah, if you dig in or slap and send 2200 watts through just about any 410, you'll shred the speakers.

will33 · #6 10-07-2011, 11:33 AM

+1 to all.

I've run across all kinds of amps that don't have "linear" or even pots. Some had to be turned up quite a ways to get into their power range but many had almost all of their useable range in the bottom half of the dial so half way up doesn't mean half power at all.

I also doubt these speakers desintigrated overnight. There should've been audible signs of distortion or generally bad tone before the meltdown.

The tweet may just be on a HPF with nothing rolling off the top of the 10's. It's that way in a lot of bass cabs including an old eden/nemesis 410T I used to have. That means the tweet and filter could be used with other drivers without crossover modification. That said, just stuffing other drivers in there is a crapshoot at best. Be sure to use full disclosure when selling it. Better to get them reconed or sell it as damaged. At least measure the size and tuning of both boxes and see if they're even close.

CosmicRay · #7 10-07-2011, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

That can only happen with serious overpowering, which wouldn't be covered under warranty anyway. As for just tossing some other random drivers in there, bad idea. Besides the impedance and crossover issues they may just plain not work well at all, cab and drivers are designed to work together. You should investigate getting the Eden drivers re-coned.
And there is no Mr. David Eden. The name was originally applied to one product, the David (as in David and Goliath), made by Eden, expanded to apply to a full line.

Thanks for the response, I do appreciate it. The speakers I want to put into the 410 eden cab, came out of an epifani 410 cab. The cabs are approx the same size, eden being slightly larger. The main difference is the ohms.
I would of course disclose the components if I were to sell it, I just want to make sure it would function properly.

CosmicRay · #8 10-07-2011, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

That can only happen with serious overpowering, which wouldn't be covered under warranty anyway. As for just tossing some other random drivers in there, bad idea. Besides the impedance and crossover issues they may just plain not work well at all, cab and drivers are designed to work together. You should investigate getting the Eden drivers re-coned.
And there is no Mr. David Eden. The name was originally applied to one product, the David (as in David and Goliath), made by Eden, expanded to apply to a full line.

Thanks Bill, I was being a little sarcastic reaching out to Mr. Eden, but I do appreciate your
info.
I'd like to see if the four 10" speakers I have will work in the eden cab. They came out of an Epi 410 cab of a similar size to the eden. The ohms is the main difference.
I really do not want to invest more cash into the eden cab, as I want to sell it. It's also just too heavy to lug around.

CosmicRay · #9 10-07-2011, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russell L

Well, just my two cents here (and I'm no expert), but I never run my master past noon on my Little Mark II (CMD 121H combo). This is just a "for instance." I set the gain at about 1:00 because that's just under when it would clip when I play hardest. Then, my master comes up to about 11:00 at the most. With the eq set flat I can still make the 12" in my 121H combo clank if I slap the strings. Now, your eq may have more bottom in it than mine when set "flat" (so-called). So, depending on that and how you pluck or slap the string you could be sending a strong spike through those speakers. I'm not faulting you or criticizing, please don't think that, but just saying that some parameters may not be what they seem to be. Hope you get it sorted, pal.

Yeah, thanks - me too...
But I've used other cabs with this same amp and never had any issues. And I can't use the, "you get what you pay for" line on this. Eden was pricy and blew up nonetheless....

bongomania · #10 10-07-2011, 01:29 PM

What happened to the Epifani cab?

BassmanPaul · #11 10-07-2011, 01:38 PM

Let's be honest here the Epi drivers will work in the Eden cabinet. The question is: how well? If you want to sell the Eden then re-cone, if you can, or replace with the OEM drivers. That way you are rid of the Eden with no bad Karma.

To echo Bongo's question where did the Epi drivers come from??

Mousekillaz · #12 10-07-2011, 01:39 PM

Stick the 10's you have in there just to get by, 4 ohms is fine for a stand alone, but might thermal your amp, if it were run with another 4 ohm cab. As far as selling it your going to take a bath on it, do it on the straight up with full disclosure as to what been done.

CosmicRay · #13 10-07-2011, 04:25 PM

I have and use the Epi cab on occasion. I had the cab converted from 8 ohms to 4 ohms and kept the speakers. There is nothing wrong with the original speakers. I just wanted a
4 ohm cab to use by itself.

CosmicRay · #14 10-07-2011, 04:26 PM

I have and use the Epi cab on occasion. I had the cab converted from 8 ohms to 4 ohms and kept the speakers. There is nothing wrong with the original speakers. I just wanted a 4 ohm cab to use by itself.

Alex1984 · #15 10-07-2011, 05:43 PM

So the old speakers would've given 8 ohms. I'd personally opt for reconing the old speakers though, as that would be much cheaper.

will33 · #16 10-07-2011, 05:59 PM

As long as the tweeter is only highpassed with the 10's recieving a full signal you can stick the epi. drivers in there and see how it works. I don't mean it won't work at all, just that you can't predict the result before doing the work. If the eden has a true crossover (which I doubt) you'd have to disconnect all that and wire the 10's straight up to a jack.

IntrepidCellist · #17 10-07-2011, 06:26 PM

Just a heads-up: Eden's master volume controls are notoriously front-loaded. The WT800C will cook a D410XLT at full power, and at those volume settings you were likely running it at close to full power.

NOVAX · #18 10-07-2011, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicRay

My issue may be unique, probably not. My Eden D410XLT cab, just about a year old, recently crapped out on a gig. The speakers literally fell apart, disintegrated into pieces. Not cool.
I was told it's not under warranty, which is another issue onto itself. Needless to say how I feel about Eden right now....and believe me, I was not over-driving this cab. I play through an Eden WT800C, keeping everything flat with master & gain around 1:00 - (just f.y.i. Mr. David Eden & USA Music Corp) -
My next course of action is to find out how I can replace the four speakers with those that I removed from an Epifani cab, but is not the same ohms.
The Epi was 8 ohm, the Eden is 4 ohm. My concern is about the tweeter and crossover.
Does anyone have any advice as how to do this properly?
My end game is to sell the Eden....without it coming back to bite me...or frying someones amp.

David Nordchow?

JimmyM · #19 10-07-2011, 07:35 PM

This is a good thread! Not as good as the "nicest rig in town" thread, but still quite good!

This thread demonstrates very clearly why wanting a small-to-medium sized 4 ohm cab to squeeze every bit of power out of your monster wattage head is a very bad idea.

Jim Carr · #20 10-07-2011, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicRay

...replace the four speakers with those that I removed from an Epifani cab...

Go with the Epi Cab!

Oops, better read more posts above, but in the spirit of paradise lost, here is the unrestored "Cacciata dei progenitori dal Paradiso" by Masaccio, Michelangelo's inspiration. Maybe this is a moment for inspiration?