Trace Elliot AH-250

Hoodee · #1 10-01-2011, 12:50 AM

Hi everybody, it's my first time posting here.

Long story short : for 12 years I've been playing guitar, I recently joined a band as the bass player (first as a replacement for one gig, being "better" suited for the job, I ended up being a full-time menber of the band). I own a little recording studio, so a bass rig was already on my "to buy" list, you're never too equipped for that sort of things. Having certain ideas about bass tones, I bought (second hand) some stuff I've already recorded in the past and I've had the opportunity to hear on many many past gigs. The complete rig goes like this :

Sansamp R.B.I
Trace Elliot AH-250 head (the old one, GP11 preamp, possibly made in the 80's )
Trace Elliot 1048H cab (800w)

Now, what I wanted to know is : what can I do so I can get more volume out of this ? That setup is good for rehearsals and bigger, miced up venues, but I'm 100% sure it won't be enough for smaller venues (where the band will not be miced, just the vocals). The options I had in mind were :
1)Buying a power amp,
2)Buying a second amp (TE AH-500 7 came to my mind)
3)A magical setting trick, that would increase the volume without having to blow something up

.

While the second option seems to be the easiest, I wonder if any TE users around here could give me some hints about the first and the last of them.

Cheers !

Leakim · #2 10-01-2011, 01:27 AM

Your amp's minimum load is probably 4 ohm's, so check your speaker impedans, if it's 8 ohm's, get another 8 ohm speaker, and you will get maximum power from your amp.

tsverrir · #3 10-01-2011, 05:04 AM

I've had one of these for almost 20 years. Actually I just sold it yesterday. I never used this amp for it's full potential. When playing smaller gigs (unmiced) I used to hook it up to an old Fender Bassman cab (4*12" i think). Never raised the volume knob up to 12 o'clock.

RickenBoogie · #4 10-01-2011, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leakim

Your amp's minimum load is probably 4 ohm's, so check your speaker impedans, if it's 8 ohm's, get another 8 ohm speaker, and you will get maximum power from your amp.

THIS^

Hoodee · #5 10-02-2011, 02:25 AM

I don't crank the amp either, usually the gain and output knobs are about the same position, around 12 o'clock.

Do i really have to get a second cab ? Or can I just rewire the cab so it's a 4 ohms ?

Leakim · #6 10-02-2011, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoodee

I don't crank the amp either, usually the gain and output knobs are about the same position, around 12 o'clock.

Do i really have to get a second cab ? Or can I just rewire the cab so it's a 4 ohms ?

It's probably 8 ohm's speaker's, so it's not possible to rewire it to 4 ohm's and remember to keep your input gain as high as you can without distorting, the input gain LED's are usefull tools. You will get the most out of your pre-amp this way.

nixdad · #7 10-02-2011, 09:49 AM

It sounds like you have either a Mk IV or Mk V AH 250 (Mk IV serial # will start with a "4" and will have chrome corner hardware, Mk V serial # will start with a "5" and should have black corner hardware.)

The power sections in these amps are AMAZING, and have more balls and power than most amps rated at double the power. If that's not the case, get it checked out. I'd be very surprised if you have to add a 2nd cabinet for any small club gig. If you do, you can probably find an old 1518 cab (1x15 8 ohm) for a very reasonable price to create the stack. BTW, this was the first rig to combine 4x10 & 1x15 cabs.

Hoodee · #8 10-02-2011, 02:08 PM

Yes It has chrome corners...

No, the serial # start differently (it's C3625 )...

After todays rehearsal and some minor tweaking, I finally managed to be so loud that stuffs were moving by themselves all around the studio

Apperently it won't be necessary to have the full power that amp can deliver, yet I feel that the extra headroom more watts could offer would be a good thing considering the age of this amp...

anonymous101511 · #9 10-02-2011, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoodee

I don't crank the amp either, usually the gain and output knobs are about the same position, around 12 o'clock.

Do i really have to get a second cab ? Or can I just rewire the cab so it's a 4 ohms ?

Hi, love the Trace stuff, myself. Confused by the statement above; you say you aren't 'cranking' your amp; is this because it's already distorting? If so then yes, you would look at more power or another speaker.
If not, you might try pushing it harder and see if it gives you enough. Don't be afraid of going wide open if the speaker is still sounding good!

My basses need about 6.5 (1:30 on the clock) on the gain to get into the 'OK' range.

Hoodee · #10 10-03-2011, 05:45 AM

I'm sorry, since I still in the "guitar world" and I don;t quite understand some things like bass players do

By that whole cranking thing I meant the output stage : i never go over 12 or 1 o'clock. Same goes for the preamp : to achieve "full power" without distortion, it goes usually to 6 or so, and the speakers still sound good.

The thing I wanted to achieve is the amp pushing more air, thus the whole watts issue...But I got over it last rehearsal, as I wrote earlier.

Just one more thing : I tried to look for the production date of my amp, the funny thing is...even people at Trace Elliot can't tell me, judging by the serial #, which years the amp could have been made in...I'm still expecting a call from one of the oldest techs at TE (who's Polish by the way, just as I XD ), but it seems I put my hand on some pretty rare piece of gear...And i got it for under 130 $ XD

Sneakypete · #11 10-03-2011, 07:02 AM

I have an old AH350X which is basically an AH250 full range output plus a 150W high-pass output (I seldom use the high-pass, though). Just the 250 into a 1x15 and 2x10 gives a tremendous output - with my passive bass I keep the gain at about the 3 0'clock mark and rarely have ever turned the output level past the noon position. I can honestly say that I've never found it lacking in power - indoors or out- despite having two guitars, keys and drums to keep up with and having no PA support. IMO anyone who finds of these old battleships lacking in power either needs more cabs or must be in a frighteningly loud band!

jpotrs · #12 10-03-2011, 07:10 AM

I use a TE rah300sm (280 watt rating) from the mid 90s into an 8ohm 4x10. I have used this rig at a few small clubs with no additional reinforcement and never had an issue. If anything I find that when I get told to turn down. This is with a loud as F**k drummer and 2 guitarists/half stacks. I can't imagine really needing more juice than this and it really isn't barely more than your 250.

Hoodee · #13 10-03-2011, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sneakypete

Just the 250 into a 1x15 and 2x10 gives a tremendous output - with my passive bass I keep the gain at about the 3 0'clock mark and rarely have ever turned the output level past the noon position.

Yes, but that would mean you are operating at 250w (two cabs, 8 ohms each, would give you a total impedance of 4ohm, therefore, the amp delivers 250w). I plug my amp into one cab (4x10), 8ohms...If I got that right, I'm at half the nominal power...

KJung · #14 10-03-2011, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoodee

Yes, but that would mean you are operating at 250w (two cabs, 8 ohms each, would give you a total impedance of 4ohm, therefore, the amp delivers 250w). I plug my amp into one cab (4x10), 8ohms...If I got that right, I'm at half the nominal power...

A couple things. First, the position of the master volume knob in NO way tells you if you are pushing the amp or not. Many amps reach their full output (assuming you have the input gain set correctly) at around the noon level of the master volume, due to the taper of that control. From my experience with a similar Trace back in the day, this is the case with your amp.

If you had a 210 8ohm cab, adding another 8ohm 210 would be an obvious fix, giving you a massive increase in volume (on average, around 5db), by doubling the number of drivers, and almost doubling the power.

Since you have a very large cab already, I can't imagine getting another big 8ohm 410. In your case, since you have a cab that can most likely handle much more power, you would probably be best off by getting a different head to increase you volume capability without carrying a bunch of additional weight.

Tracebassplayer · #15 10-03-2011, 07:30 AM

Trace Elliot amps wattage ratings are very conservative.

You would have to double your amps wattage to gain noticeable volume.
Stacking a similar cab - 10x4 on a 10 x 4- would also give you a free 5 DB gain over the single cab in addition to the increased volume of adding a cab.
Going from an 4 ohm load to an 8 ohm load doesn't cut your volume in half but more by bit over a 1/4 .
You'll get better low end response from you 15 by putting it on the low side x-over where it is designed to be for an amp with that option.

Hoodee · #16 10-03-2011, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJung

In your case, since you have a cab that can most likely handle much more power, you would probably be best off by getting a different head to increase you volume capability without carrying a bunch of additional weight.

Dude, no way XD

I've recorded like 25 bands last year alone, I had a bunch of different bass gear to listen to...Nothing, absolutely NOTHING, ever came close to the pleasure hearing that particular amp ever gave me (it belonged to my previous band bass player).

So no, i wont't get another head...I'd rather carry a cab more to every gig than getting rid of this baby

KJung · #17 10-03-2011, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoodee

Dude, no way XD

I've recorded like 25 bands last year alone, I had a bunch of different bass gear to listen to...Nothing, absolutely NOTHING, ever came close to the pleasure hearing that particular amp ever gave me (it belonged to my previous band bass player).

So no, i wont't get another head...I'd rather carry a cab more to every gig than getting rid of this baby

The Traces heads do have their own voice (extremely mid present with 'pleasant' midrange distortion), and if you dig that voicing, then you are right to stick with what you like. Maybe you can find a higher powered used Trace head to give you 'more of what you dig' without lugging another 410 around.

Hoodee · #18 10-03-2011, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJung

Maybe you can find a higher powered used Trace head to give you 'more of what you dig' without lugging another 410 around.

Like how many early 80's TE heads you've seen before ?

I've tried to look for that stuff, problem is there's not that much that type of gear still "alive",and if there are, most of the owners don't want to get rid of them.

KJung · #19 10-03-2011, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoodee

Like how many early 80's TE heads you've seen before ?

I've tried to look for that stuff, problem is there's not that much that type of gear still "alive",and if there are, most of the owners don't want to get rid of them.

+1. Still worth keeping your eyes open though.

Hoodee · #20 10-03-2011, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJung

Still worth keeping your eyes open though.

I live in Poland...It's like a hell hole for any kind of gear, and TE is sooooo underrated here that any time you come out for a gig with an TE amp, people are asking "What's that butt-ugly thing? " XD