Tried a vintage "Squareback" SVT 810.... not impressed?

[pablomigraine]

No idea what year it was..... pretty good condition except for torn up tolex.... no screws... seemingly all carpentry nails.... all original speakers in good working order.... sounded nasal and weak.... no bass or low-midrange at all.....tried it with an SVT-CL and an SVT-3Pro. Sounded awful.

Ive heard a lot of people compare this to the NV610..... I hear zero similarity.... it sounds like a guitar 412.... all hi-midrange and zero beef..... dont understand the huff about these.... or maybe this was just a bad one? I nearly bought it sight unheard, glad I listened to it first.... am I nuts?

[will33]

Something had to have been wrong with something or it's just really not your cup-o-tea. They did use guitar drivers but they weren't that weak. You certain they were in fact all original and all worked properly. No compartments with one good one and one bad, no replacements or improper recones?

Different strokes but those are one of the few svt810's I think really are the cats pj's, most of the newer ones I've played sound muddy. Still haven't played one of the newest models with different drivers though.

[JimmyM]

Mine is the best 810 I ever heard now that I got all the speakers reconed. Surprised you had this result, but I guess LOUD is happy

[pablomigraine]

Originally Posted by will33

Something had to have been wrong with something or it's just really not your cup-o-tea. They did use guitar drivers but they weren't that weak. You certain they were in fact all original and all worked properly. No compartments with one good one and one bad, no replacements or improper recones?

Different strokes but those are one of the few svt810's I think really are the cats pj's, most of the newer ones I've played sound muddy. Still haven't played one of the newest models with different drivers though.

All original squareback drivers, no bad cones (inspected the surrounds, did the "push test" to make sure there was a good seal driver to baffle and chamber to chamber) and in overall very good condition.... it had and XLR in if that helps identify the era. The thing is.... I just couldn't coax any bass out of it at all.... and the upper midrange was not at all sweet and full of "information" the way the Bergs are.... it honestly sounded exactly like plugging an SVT with lo-gain settings into a cheap guitar cab.... hollow and weak and twangy. I was super disappointed.... I may still buy it an load it up with Jensens or maybe Eminence Legend b810's. It seemed like a very good price.... Jimmy.... is $500 a good number to pay for one of these in VGC?

[JimmyM]

I would pay $500 for one in VGC.

[will33]

Originally Posted by pablomigraine

All original squareback drivers, no bad cones (inspected the surrounds, did the "push test" to make sure there was a good seal driver to baffle and chamber to chamber) and in overall very good condition.... it had and XLR in if that helps identify the era. The thing is.... I just couldn't coax any bass out of it at all.... and the upper midrange was not at all sweet and full of "information" the way the Bergs are.... it honestly sounded exactly like plugging an SVT with lo-gain settings into a cheap guitar cab.... hollow and weak and twangy. I was super disappointed.... I may still buy it an load it up with Jensens or maybe Eminence Legend b810's. It seemed like a very good price.... Jimmy.... is $500 a good number to pay for one of these in VGC?

Don't know what to tell you then. The ones I've heard are full of grunt and grind...great for hard rock. They never did have low bass. Maybe just not your thing. It is 40 years old, who knows what's up with it.....still worth that price as a vintage piece though especially considering the svt is still an industry standard all this time later. Maybe it does need a recone..age, dryrotted spiders you can't see without taking it apart, cones may seem good but go haywire under power.....guessing here.

[Jerrold Tiers]

A couple things.....

1) You probably want to EQ differently than you may do for an HLF etc.... You no doubt tried all that first thing.....

2) Listening to it alone may not tell the story..... One of the things about some "classic" amps and speakers is that they don't necessarily sound good alone, but they sort of "automatically slot into the mix" in a really good way.

if you are looking for floor shaking detuned lows, move on... it ain't happening, that 810 has nothing below about 70Hz. But it slots just over the kick, and a lot of the low end is the "harmonic combination" deal where you "hear" the fundamental if the harmonics are all there.

there is 'store sound" and there is 'gig sound"

[bass rookie]

Looking to get started on bass and im considering two options. First the Squire Jazz bass and the Squire Jaguar. I will be playing some rock, country and jazz. Thanks for any input on this.

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by Jerrold Tiers

A couple things.....

1) You probably want to EQ differently than you may do for an HLF etc.... You no doubt tried all that first thing.....

2) Listening to it alone may not tell the story..... One of the things about some "classic" amps and speakers is that they don't necessarily sound good alone, but they sort of "automatically slot into the mix" in a really good way.

if you are looking for floor shaking detuned lows, move on... it ain't happening, that 810 has nothing below about 70Hz. But it slots just over the kick, and a lot of the low end is the "harmonic combination" deal where you "hear" the fundamental if the harmonics are all there.

there is 'store sound" and there is 'gig sound"

Agreed 100% - it took me a long time to figure out that something that sounds great by itself doesn't always work that well in a band setting, and something that doesn't sound all that great by itself may actually kill in a band setting...

It's almost like I need to pick something that sounds crappy to insure that it'll work well in a band context - hahaha!!!!

Seems like I get a sound *I* like, then have to add mids and highs once the whole band plays, AND cut lows a little in order not to cause problems with the PA... I try to make conservative adjustments in those areas, though - as I still want to be able to enjoy the sound I'm making...


- georgestrings

[WorkingBassist]

Imho I work at a major music store chain the sound of the new svt classics don't sound as good as the early svts head they are a hybrid amp have experience with the svt 3 pro as well I think it might of been the heads not the cab but I like the svt 3 pro when dialed right

[anderbass]

Originally Posted by pablomigraine

I just couldn't coax any bass out of it at all....

I own an old flatback fridge (w/original speakers) and a NV610, and play them with vintage SVT's. While I slightly prefer my NV, my flatback sounds very close in every way.

I'm thinking half the speakers in that cab you tried have been mistakenly wired out of phase. This would totally explain the poor results you got.

[pablomigraine]

Originally Posted by WorkingBassist

Imho I work at a major music store chain the sound of the new svt classics don't sound as good as the early svts head they are a hybrid amp have experience with the svt 3 pro as well I think it might of been the heads not the cab but I like the svt 3 pro when dialed right

It had nothing to do with the amps. I also tried 4 different basses with it. It sounded unacceptably lame regardless of the rest of the signal chain.

Originally Posted by anderbass

I'm thinking half the speakers in that cab you tried have been mistakenly wired out of phase. This would totally explain the poor results you got.

I think you may be on to something with this. This cabinet could not possibly have sounded less like an NV610, which I used for years and years. In any case, I put a deposit on it. Details to follow.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by WorkingBassist

Imho I work at a major music store chain the sound of the new svt classics don't sound as good as the early svts head they are a hybrid amp have experience with the svt 3 pro as well I think it might of been the heads not the cab but I like the svt 3 pro when dialed right

If you're talking about the SVT 3 Pro vs an early tube SVT, all I could say is "Of course it doesn't sound like the old SVT's...not enough tubes!" Now try the SVT-VR...that's a more apt comparison.

[Seans]

Originally Posted by anderbass

I own an old flatback fridge (w/original speakers) and a NV610, and play them with vintage SVT's. While I slightly prefer my NV, my flatback sounds very close in every way.

I'm thinking half the speakers in that cab you tried have been mistakenly wired out of phase. This would totally explain the poor results you got.

+1, you could if all are not connected, be into dangerous ohm levels too. Stick a small battery across the speaker cable + to +, all speakers should jump out and at the same time.

[Bassmec]

Originally Posted by pablomigraine

No idea what year it was..... pretty good condition except for torn up tolex.... no screws... seemingly all carpentry nails.... all original speakers in good working order.... sounded nasal and weak.... no bass or low-midrange at all.....tried it with an SVT-CL and an SVT-3Pro. Sounded awful.

Ive heard a lot of people compare this to the NV610..... I hear zero similarity.... it sounds like a guitar 412.... all hi-midrange and zero beef..... dont understand the huff about these.... or maybe this was just a bad one? I nearly bought it sight unheard, glad I listened to it first.... am I nuts?

I don't think this cabinet was in full working order or your aspirations as to the levels of LF in good bass guitar tone are as skewed as many bass players these days that turn up in this studio.
Are your microphone mix expectations rightish or does your sound kinda work better recorded with a DI for the midrange.
Heavily scooped cabs are rubbish in the studio.
How I miss the days of midrange forward old fifteens CTS, Altec, JBL K140's, Messa Diesels with EV's that didn't make stupid amounts of LF but also didn't need a tweeter and dropped clear through a hole in the mix to punch you full in the chest along with the kick drum.
I keep a pair of very old Altec SVT115's with the Altec option 418 full range alnico driver, because they at least have some midrange on axis.

[DLEE]

I've been an Ampeg junkie since I got my first SVT in 76.Ampeg is a distinct sound and it isn't gut rumbling lows.I find when most people say an Ampeg is to muddy and flabby I usually look at the knobs and sure enough that bass knob is cranked.Mids baby mids! Theres enough inherent low end to rumble all you need.Guitarists are the worst about it,it's always can you add more bass? I've never compared the 2 side by side but I would have to believe there's a problem somewhere.Those early cabs get the GOOD GRIND!

[LiquidMidnight]

Originally Posted by Jerrold Tiers

there is 'store sound" and there is 'gig sound"

+1 And in my experience, some rooms, even including rooms at some music stores, just sound terrible. No amount of EQing seems to get you where you'd like to be. My father's living room is one such room, and can make a $2000 rig sound like a cheap amp.

Not doubting the OP. I've never played a vintage SVT 8x10 (I've played reissues, though). I'm just giving the perspective that what sounds like the voice of Thor in one room may not in another room, and vice-versa.

[pablomigraine]

Originally Posted by Bassmec

I don't think this cabinet was in full working order or your aspirations as to the levels of LF in good bass guitar tone are as skewed as many bass players these days that turn up in this studio.
Are your microphone mix expectations rightish or does your sound kinda work better recorded with a DI for the midrange.
Heavily scooped cabs are rubbish in the studio.
How I miss the days of midrange forward old fifteens CTS, Altec, JBL K140's, Messa Diesels with EV's that didn't make stupid amounts of LF but also didn't need a tweeter and dropped clear through a hole in the mix to punch you full in the chest along with the kick drum.
I keep a pair of very old Altec SVT115's with the Altec option 418 full range alnico driver, because they at least have some midrange on axis.

Well.... with all humility, Ive owned and / or toured with over 3 dozen different cabinets, recorded over 350 tracks for all types of different projects in at least a half a dozen studios, have extensive stage and studio experience with every variety of preamp and di box, fully versed in what sounds good solo vs in a mix, have no "unrealistic" expectations of how much low end a cabinet of this design and pedigree should push etc.... and I can say that... the thing just did not sound right.... if these are supposed to sound anything like a Berg NV610 regardless of amps, settings or basses.... then there was definitely something amiss with this cab....

Originally Posted by LiquidMidnight

+1 And in my experience, some rooms, even including rooms at some music stores, just sound terrible. No amount of EQing seems to get you where you'd like to be. My father's living room is one such room, and can make a $2000 rig sound like a cheap amp.


Not doubting the OP. I've never played a vintage SVT 8x10 (I've played reissues, though). I'm just giving the perspective that what sounds like the voice of Thor in one room may not in another room, and vice-versa.

This is true, however not the problem in this case.... one thing I can definitely say I DONT know the sound of is speakers wired out of phase..... that's the only thing I can think of that may be wrong here.....When I say there was no low end.... you should not get the impression of a beared 42 yo hobby rocker rocker who's used to hammering away with a nickel on a 4-banger tuned down 5 whole steps, turning the bass all the way up on everything, scooping out mids and sweating my way through black sabbath covers a half-step off most of the way and complaining there "aint enough bass"..... what I mean is that it does not sound anything like the Berg NV610, or 80's SVTs... or the new SVT's...... or any other bass cab I've ever heard... it sounded like a guitar 412 with the mids rolled all the way up, bass and treble all the way down and about as much "shove" as grandma moses pushing her shopping cart up a hill....

in any case, the cab will be here in 3 weeks and I will pop back on explore the wiring issue.....

[B-string]

Drivers out of phase will lack bass, the mids will sound nasally and have weird peaks, overall output will be weak. Sound like what you heard maybe?
The highs on the old cabs were not stong though.

[staindbass]

no beeF ? have you ever checked the phasing to be sure all the speakers move in the same direction when you apply a 9v battery to the input terminals of the speaker? (you can do this with the speaker cable plug, put the tip on the + and the speakers should all move outward) even though the cabinets have sealed sub enclosures, one out of phase will thin it out. i have noticed this twice on rented backline.