True Hybrid Micro-Heads - Streamliner vs. MB-Fusion?

[mlwarriner]

I’ve dug through several pages of the forum, and done a search or two and can’t find quite what I’m looking for, so…

How do the GK MB-Fusion and the GB Streamliner heads compare, sound-wise? I know that nothing but all-tube is going to be all-tube, but which one gets closer? I’ve pretty well narrowed down my micro-head search to these two. Call me crazy, but I’m a big fan of real tube preamps.

Price and wattage aside, which is the better amp? I’ll be playing one or the other through a Carvin 2x10/4x10 stack (the BR cabs, sealed) playing punk/hardcore/hard rock/metal pretty much. My gigging basses are a Destroyer P-bass, a Rockbass 5-string tuned high with Nordstrand single coils and a Peavey with Rickenbacker pickups swapped in.

Please and thanks!

[KJung]

Totally different sounding heads and both great for what they are.

The MBFusion (IMO) is more of a 'typical' hybrid. Even though it has three preamp tubes like the Streamliner, it sounds MUCH more like an GK MB500 with a bit of 'tube complexity' added in. There are very few posts about the 'tubiness' of the MBFusion. For context, I would compare the tubiness of the MBFusion to the Genz Shuttle amps and also the Mesa M6 and M9.... nice 'tube complexity' that you can hear, but definitely the general tone and feel of a solid state amp with a touch of tube sweetening. Nothing wrong with that!

The Streamliner's whole purpose of being and design goal is to emulate a full tube signal chain, and IMO and IME it does that very well. It does a very nice job of providing a pretty realistic 'feel' that many love in an all tube signal chain, and even its very old school and interactive tone controls bring to mind a tube amp. It has a big, wide low end, smooth mids, and where it REALLY vibes an all tube signal chain is up top.. a very sweet upper treble response. I would compare the vibe of this amp to the Mesa MPulse line, which also attempts to emulate Mesa's version of an 'all tube tone'.

Both these amps will go into full overdrive when the preamp tubes are pushed. Since there are so many subtle versions of 'overdrive', you might or might not like the particular tonality of either amp really pushed.


Both amps are quite loud, but the Streamliner (with that cool tube signal chain emulation circuit), just keeps getting louder and louder while staying quite clean if you want it to.

Again, both are great. I would again not really consider the MBFusion's primary design goal as emulating an all tube signal chain though. More like 'adding a tube dimension to the classic GK tone'.

IMO and IME!

[mlwarriner]

Originally Posted by KJung

More like 'adding a tube dimension to the classic GK tone'.

IMO and IME!

that sounds tasty

with the streamliner - is the 600 "enough", or is the extra headroom of the 900 worth the extra $?

[KJung]

Originally Posted by mlwarriner

that sounds tasty

with the streamliner - is the 600 "enough", or is the extra headroom of the 900 worth the extra $?

IMO, unless you are on a very tight budget, the only reason to buy the 600 would be if you only perform at low volumes 100% of the time. There is no downside to having the extra wump IMO, which is easily controlled by the master volume.

[KJung]

PS The Orange Hybrid amps (the Terrors) are also amazingly tubey, and do a pretty good job of emulating Orange's take on an all tube signal chain. That can be a good or bad thing, depending on if you like the Orange tone or not.

The SVT7Pro has been getting very good reviews for doing the Ampeg take on an all tube signal chain also.

I guess the closest all tube signal chain tone to the Streamliner IMO and IME is the Sadowsky SA200.

[mlwarriner]

Originally Posted by KJung

IMO, unless you are on a very tight budget, the only reason to buy the 600 would be if you only perform at low volumes 100% of the time. There is no downside to having the extra wump IMO, which is easily controlled by the master volume.

truly, there isn't a "budget" really. i'll spend what i need to spend. but. i also don't want to spend more than necessary. :shrug:

[alexofc69]

the 600 is not a low volume only amp. It gets very loud. I gig at medium size venues and get asked to turn it down. Think about it. Ampeg SVT-CL are used as only rig on large stages by big name acts and they are only 300 watts. Sure the 900 is gonna have far more headroom. But, 90% of the venues that are larger than a bar are going to have PA support so onstage the 600 will get you there. But get what suits you.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by mlwarriner

truly, there isn't a "budget" really. i'll spend what i need to spend. but. i also don't want to spend more than necessary. :shrug:

+1 I think the difference between the two models actual selling price is around $100 if I remember correctly. Again, if you are using a 210 or 112 and playing smaller gigs or music that is performed at low volumes, you would probably be wasting that money. If you are wumping a couple of small cabs are a single big cab (much less two large cabs), the 900 would be the way to go.

Another great head is the TC RH750, which sounds more tubey than a lot of hybrids even though it is completely solid state. Amazing feature set, and punch.

[bassike]

I'm a huge GK fan but between the 2 I would get the GB.

I tried the fusion once and it just didn’t do it for me. I’ll stick to the RB series.

The Streamliner sounds so bad a$$.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by alexofc69

the 600 is not a low volume only amp. It gets very loud. I gig at medium size venues and get asked to turn it down. Sure the 900 is gonna have far more headroom. But, 90% of the venues that are larger than a bar are going to have PA support so onstage the 600 will get you there. But get what suits you.

+1, and to clarify my point, I didn't mean to imply that the 600 doesn't crank. My main point was, for another $100, what the heck

[mlwarriner]

Originally Posted by KJung

+1 I think the difference between the two models actual selling price is around $100 if I remember correctly. Again, if you are using a 210 or 112 and playing smaller gigs or music that is performed at low volumes, you would probably be wasting that money. If you are wumping a couple of small cabs are a single big cab (much less two large cabs), the 900 would be the way to go.

Another great head is the TC RH750, which sounds more tubey than a lot of hybrids even though it is completely solid state. Amazing feature set, and punch.

$830 vs. $960 on musician's friend today

[Duke21]

Originally Posted by KJung

+1 I think the difference between the two models actual selling price is around $100 if I remember correctly. Again, if you are using a 210 or 112 and playing smaller gigs or music that is performed at low volumes, you would probably be wasting that money. If you are wumping a couple of small cabs are a single big cab (much less two large cabs), the 900 would be the way to go.

Another great head is the TC RH750, which sounds more tubey than a lot of hybrids even though it is completely solid state. Amazing feature set, and punch.

We came to the days where a 600W is too small......
Can't see how a 600W amp with a 4x10" cab or a 2x12" can not pull a gig.

[tink9975]

Originally Posted by mlwarriner

$830 vs. $960 on musician's friend today

you can find them cheaper through smaller music stores, especially if you talk to some of the shops that frequent TB and have discounts for TB members, like Rocket Music and others.

[mlwarriner]

Originally Posted by tink9975

you can find them cheaper through smaller music stores, especially if you talk to some of the shops that frequent TB and have discounts for TB members, like Rocket Music and others.

good to know thanks!

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Duke21

We came to the days where a 600W is too small......
Can't see how a 600W amp with a 4x10" cab or a 2x12" can not pull a gig.

Once we compare today's speaker enclosures (at least the good ones) to 'back in the day', it kind of becomes a bit clear.

Wattage, in and of itself, means very little. However, wattage combined with:

-Tone goal.... how clean, how deep, how open do you want your sound, and do you play a 5 or 6 string with a low B

-Speaker sensitivity..... a widely, deeply voiced cab can take a surprising amount of input watts to reach the same volume as a mid present box

-Absolute volume needs... the two previous attributes can interact to result in surprisingly high wattage (assuming you have enough quality drivers to handle the power) being needed to reach high volumes.

IMO and IME. Also, the various limiter designs, etc. of amps result in varying performance across brands relative to wattage. For example, Markbass's limiting design seems to keep the amp sounding VERY much the same until the limiter hits, and then the amps compress very strongly and quickly (i.e., they won't get any louder). Amps like the Genz and the TC amps use complex tube emulation limiting to allow them to get louder than their published wattage would suggest, but at the 'cost' of more distortion (for many, the good kind).

So, not so simple. This really becomes clear when you compare one of the old Acoustic heads (e.g., 370) or the old GK 800RB to more modern heads. Especially with the Acoustic, there is a brutal midrange spike in the voicing of that head which results in ear splitting volume given its wattage. However, when you use the EQ to even the mids and expand the deep low end to more mimic the current batch of more evenly and widely voiced heads, that volume drops like a rock.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by tink9975

you can find them cheaper through smaller music stores, especially if you talk to some of the shops that frequent TB and have discounts for TB members, like Rocket Music and others.

+1 Rocket is a great Genz retailer, and is particularly good to fellow TBers!

[tombowlus]

Those are both fine amps, but they sound very, very different. The Genz sounded much more inherently bassy, warm and round to my ear, and the GK is more inherently clear and harmonically rich. Both can be EQ'd to encompass a variety of tones. I would disagree with the notion that one is more of an "all-tube signal path" than the other, because to the best of my knowledge, they both use all six valve stages from their three preamp tubes. For my tonal preferences, the MB Fusion wins, but I can see where plenty of other folks would prefer the Genz.

And as Ken has said, the Terror Bass 500/1000 is an excellent take on the Orange flavor of "tube head sound in a micro head body" and the same goes for the SVT-7Pro copping Ampeg's take on this - though I would point out that both of these are larger than the GK or Genz, but still relatively small and light.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by tombowlus

I would disagree with the notion that one is more of an "all-tube signal path" than the other, because to the best of my knowledge, they both use all six valve stages from their three preamp tubes.

+1 To clarify my point, the IMPACT of the GK tube design, to me, sounds more like a more typical 'single tube hybrid' like the M6, the Shuttle, etc., versus the very signficant 'all tube signal chain' tone and especially 'feel' of the Streamliner.

Neither is 'better or worse' though, but very different IMO and IME. Put another way, I hear a LOT of the MB500 in the MBFusion. I hear virtually NONE of the Shuttle 9 in the Streamliner.

[alexofc69]

Originally Posted by KJung

+1, and to clarify my point, I didn't mean to imply that the 600 doesn't crank. My main point was, for another $100, what the heck

yeah, I thought that afterwards, but then would have need 2 new cabs as my NEOx 112s are rated at 300 watts each

[mlwarriner]

Originally Posted by tink9975

you can find them cheaper through smaller music stores, especially if you talk to some of the shops that frequent TB

indeed.

c'mon 11am pacific time