Trying to pick a bigger amp.

[Jack Pepsi]

Hi Everyone - first post!

Basically, I currently play an Epiphone EB-3 through an Ashdown Electric Blue 150 15" combo amp. I use a Zoom B2 effect unit to add some compression/mild effects.

With the exception of the Zoom B2, the rig has stayed the same since I started playing. In the past I've played in small time punk bands, the practices were fairly lo-fi affairs and never really required too much consideration in the bass department. Also, the gigs we played were generally support slots and because of this I was always playing through the main act's backline (At one point using some snazzy radio gear - but that's neither here nor there). For these reasons, the Ashdown EB150 has been sufficient for the past eight years. My guitarist has been using a Randall WH40 Celestion.

Now, however, I wish to be a bit more serious about my playing and would like an amplifier that not only competes more in practices - but is also convincing as a gigging amp.

My budget is fairly meager, barely hovering around the £400 ($620ish) mark. My questions are:

First and foremost, what sort of amp do you suggest?

Which would be better for someone just getting back into gigging, but wanting an amp that will see him through a couple of years - a combo amp or an amp/cabinet?

If the answer is to go for an amp head, how does one go about choosing the right one, further to this, what needs to be considered when choosing a matching cab?

Perhaps I am getting ahead of myself - should I stick with combos?

This question probably gets repeated so much that it makes you sick, so I had a root around on the forums to try and dig up some old answers to save you some hassle.

I found one or two bits of information, but I'm still not sure.

(Sorry if this has been universally resolved, feel free to lock it and direct me to the solution).

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide,

Jack.

[greenboy]

Tad parties like a BEAST. Or used to anyway. Highly recommended live band. frenzy! SEX GOD MISSY!

Don't stick with combos, and buy used. That's usually the way to bring a rig along, bit by bit and still not hit the budget too hard. I'm not a real BRAND NAME hog, just try what comes up cheap and see if it's gonna fit in and take things up a notch for you.

[Jack Pepsi]

Originally Posted by greenboy

Tad parties like a BEAST. Or used to anyway. Highly recommended live band. frenzy! SEX GOD MISSY!

Aha! Didn't think there were any TAD fans left in the world!

I've been looking through the usual second hand haunts (i.e. ebay), and I've seen one or two interesting looking items. Buying something so expensive second hand, without any practical opportunity to try before you buy intimidates me a little bit though.

It's made even more difficult as I don't really know what I'm looking for.

What should I be looking for as a priority - More watts? A larger speaker diameter? Generally speaking - I intend on improving on A) The volume and B) The clarity that currently get from the Ashdown combo I mentioned above.

[AwkwardLoudness]

I would also suggest avoiding combo amps because separate head and cab(s) allow for flexibility for partial rig changes in the future. In valve amps ('tube amps' here in the USA), the valves tend to vibrate more in combo especially compared to a separate head that's not placed on top of the cab. Vibrations reduce valve life.

Your budget is rather limited, so I say see what's available on your local used market and ask questions here on TalkBass about specific amps and cabs wen you find them for sale. I assume you're in Great Britain since you stated a budget in terms of GBP. There are many great vintage and newer amps over there, so I hope you find one that works for you.

For choosing a matching cab to a specific amp head, it's most important to consider the electrical impedance (measured in ohms, Ω) and the power handling. A valve amp with 100 watt RMS clean power should have cab that can handle at least 200 RMS. A solid state amp with 100 watt RMS power should have cab that can handle at least 100 RMS since the amp will sound awful past the clean watts...no need to go further. Use your ears too of course. Some amps and cabs pair together well and some don't even if the power handling and impedance match.

[s_mcsleazy]

Originally Posted by Jack Pepsi

Aha! Didn't think there were any TAD fans left in the world!.

me and my friends love tad

[AwkwardLoudness]

Originally Posted by Jack Pepsi

What should I be looking for as a priority - More watts? A larger speaker diameter? Generally speaking - I intend on improving on A) The volume and B) The clarity that currently get from the Ashdown combo I mentioned above.

For more volume, your priority should be speaker efficiency, number of speakers, usable frequency range, and higher watts for louder clean headroom. Speaker diameter doesn't really matter in terms of volume...efficiency and power rating are far more important. Smaller speaker generally tend to have better note clarity at loud volume due to the lower magnet displacement distance.

I suggest an 8x10 cab with at least a 200 watt amp if you don't mind the weight and have the ability to transport a large cabinet.

[greenboy]

Doesn't that combo have an external speaker jack for 4 ohms minimum? A 215 speaker cab fitting that description would really give you some volume - and fit into a future set-up.

Craigslist seems to be the way to go if you can stand to deal with a lot of clueless people.

Ah yeah, still need a TAD fix from time to time. Chainsaws from Aberdeen-Hoquiam, can't ever get enough of that!

[Jack Pepsi]

Smashing advice so far, thanks to you three for your quick replies.

Since these responses have been so quick, I figure I shouldn't have too much trouble getting prompt feedback if I see an item going for sale that I'm unsure about.

Also, yes, I live in England.

Any more advice is still appreciated!

Originally Posted by greenboy

Doesn't that combo have an external speaker jack for 4 ohms minimum? A 215 speaker cab fitting that description would really give you some volume - and fit into a future set-up.

Craigslist seems to be the way to go if you can stand to deal with a lot of clueless people.

Ah yeah, still need a TAD fix from time to time. Chainsaws from Aberdeen-Hoquiam, can't ever get enough of that!

Are you refering to my Ashdown EB150? - if so, I think so. Is it a big deal to separate the amp from the combo? I think I've done it before to get some pot cleaner into an awkward spot.

[RickenBoogie]

Yes, add a cab to your combo if it has an ext spkr jack. That's the easy way to go. In the long run, think in terms of 300-500 watts for an amp, and either one large cab, 810, 412, 215, or two smaller ones, 410, 212, 115. Volume is all about speakers, much moreso than wattage.

[Jack Pepsi]

I see, would you suggest separting the amp from the speaker (It simply unscrews from the combo box and I'm fairly confident that I could build a nice looking housing for it), or would it be better to treat the whole combo as the amp head and lead it down into another speaker?

The former seems a bit more tidy/ less clumsy, but the latter would give me the added benefit of the extra 15" speaker.

The Ashdown has some lettering on the back next to the output jacks that reads:

"Output power = 150 watts RMS, 300 watts peak"

...and then below it, right next to the jacks it says:

"Speaker outputs min load = 4 Ohms"

What does this mean, and how does it effect the speaker cabs that I choose?

[chokeslam512]

That means that if you want to add another speaker cabinet to your rig via the external speaker output, it must be 8 Ohms, no less. I agree that an 8 ohm 215 would be teh awesomeness under the current combo amp and it will not break the bank.

[Jack Pepsi]

What happens if you use a speaker cab that is less than 8 ohms (With an amp that outputs 4 ohms minimum like mine)?

Also, can anyone advise on whether chopping my current combo is a good idea. It seems to me that it would give me more potential rig configurations (i.e. Amp + 1x15 from the old combo/Amp + 2x15 cab/Amp + 1x15 from the old combo AND the 2x15 cab).

Does it work like that - or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

[Jack Pepsi]

Forgive the double post.

I suddenly realised that Christmas is looming, and after a talk with the powers that be - have resolved to pick up a bass cabinet to boost my sound.

Given the specs of my current combo:...

Ashdown Electric Blue 15" 150 Watt Bass Combo:
Output power = 150 watts RMS, 300 watts peak
Speaker outputs min load = 4 Ohms

...What sort of cabinet does anyone suggest? It's a toss-up between a 2x12 and a 4x10, but I dont know which one would be better. Performance wise, what order do 1x15, 2x12 and 4x10 come in (best to worst)? Also - what brands do you recommend? I'm tempted to stick with Ashdown?

EDIT:

Would this be appropriate?

Ashdown MAG-410T

Plus; what does a 'tweeter' add to the amp?

[RickenBoogie]

Leave the combo alone, and add an Ashdown 8 ohm 1x15 to it. This would be a great pairing- going below the 4 ohms minimum will at the very least make your amp run hot, and at worst, kill it. Don't do it. 8 ohm 1x15, and a short speaker cable. Finished.

[Jack Pepsi]

What about a 4x10 instead?

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

Leave the combo alone, and add an Ashdown 8 ohm 1x15 to it. This would be a great pairing- going below the 4 ohms minimum will at the very least make your amp run hot, and at worst, kill it. Don't do it. 8 ohm 1x15, and a short speaker cable. Finished.

I'm a little confused by the wattage. Generally, there seems to be divided opinion on whether it matters?

If I go for a 1x15, exactly what specs am I looking for?

Sorry if I'm coming across as pedantic, but I really want to get this right first time and avoid any dissapointment.

Originally Posted by greenboy

Doesn't that combo have an external speaker jack for 4 ohms minimum? A 215 speaker cab fitting that description would really give you some volume - and fit into a future set-up.

Originally Posted by AwkwardLoudness

I would also suggest avoiding combo amps because separate head and cab(s) allow for flexibility for partial rig changes in the future.

Some of you have hinted at getting a foot on the first rung of the build-your-rig-as-you-go ladder. Presumably the next purchase after this would be to eventually replace the combo with a head, and then the cab with a larger one etc..?

[greenboy]

I don't have the manual to the Ashdown combo so I don't know whether it can run the internal speaker at the same time it runs a 4-ohm cab. If the manual is not clear on this, ask in an Ashdown-specific thread or contact Ashdown directly.


If I wanted to head toward a larger rig and do it one step at a time, I would go for a speaker cab first, one that would be suitable for the larger rig later on. I would run it with the combo amp, hopefully at the same time the combo's internal speaker was in use. That would have the best potential of being louder. I would buy either 4-ohms or 8-ohms, depending on the answer to the above concerns.

I myself would favor a 215 cab, but certainly an 810 cab is a great way to get loudness. Just make sure the load (either 4 ohms or 8 ohms) is right for the combo.

[Jack Pepsi]

Right, just got off the phone with a technician at Ashdown ('Dave' - nice bloke).

He says that the amp will be fine running a cab at the same time as the internal speaker. I've just found this in a local store, and can't decide on which to go for:

Laney RB410

or I could wait longer and spend more on the slightly heavier:

Ashdown 410T DEEP

for the benefit of extra wattage. This would be purely from a future purchase perspective (i.e if I were overhauling the rig again and bought a head unit with a higher watt output), but I would probably just end up selling this lot and going for a bigger amp/head in one go when I'm ready.

Your thoughts?

[greenboy]

Those both are in fact the same link, Tadman.

[Jack Pepsi]

Originally Posted by Jack Pepsi

Right, just got off the phone with a technician at Ashdown ('Dave' - nice bloke).

He says that the amp will be fine running a cab at the same time as the internal speaker. I've just found this in a local store, and can't decide on which to go for:

Laney RB410

or I could wait longer and spend more on the slightly heavier:

Ashdown 410T DEEP

for the benefit of extra wattage. This would be purely from a future purchase perspective (i.e if I were overhauling the rig again and bought a head unit with a higher watt output), but I would probably just end up selling this lot and going for a bigger amp/head in one go when I'm ready.

Your thoughts?

D'oh - Fixed!

[fingerbun]

Originally Posted by Jack Pepsi

Right, just got off the phone with a technician at Ashdown ('Dave' - nice bloke).

He says that the amp will be fine running a cab at the same time as the internal speaker. I've just found this in a local store, and can't decide on which to go for:

Laney RB410

or I could wait longer and spend more on the slightly heavier:

Ashdown 410T DEEP

for the benefit of extra wattage. This would be purely from a future purchase perspective (i.e if I were overhauling the rig again and bought a head unit with a higher watt output), but I would probably just end up selling this lot and going for a bigger amp/head in one go when I'm ready.

Your thoughts?

Not sure if you have already made the purchase.

The Laney box has celestion drivers which are I think quite a distinctive sound. I really like the sound but it will be different from the Ashdown.

So if you are able to try the speakers before buying it would be good.