Tube pre-amps. Is there one that will give you a true all-tube sound?

[dmonroe]

I recently bought an old Trace Elliot AH250 and love the sound. Because of its age I'd like to have a smaller lighter back-up in case there was an issue either right before a gig or during one. Could anyone give me a suggestion for a pre-amp that will truly give me the pure tube sound? At least something close to it.

[T-Bird]

Hi.

SWR Interstellar Overdrive comes to mind first.

Regards
Sam

[Bassmec]

Originally Posted by dmonroe

I recently bought an old Trace Elliot AH250 and love the sound. Because of its age I'd like to have a smaller lighter back-up in case there was an issue either right before a gig or during one. Could anyone give me a suggestion for a pre-amp that will truly give me the pure tube sound? At least something close to it.

There is a valve pre amp called a Fairchild 660:
BAVO DEKKER vintage audio equipment
It has a very good compressor, although it has no onboard eq that can be sorted by tacking one of these on the end:
Google Image Result for http://www.audio-hardware-emus.com/images/pultec.jpg
Did you mention a budget?.

[Jim C]

IMO the Trace head I head sounded nothing like a tube amp; quite the opposite.
In regards to your direct question; I've had Ampeg, Presonus, and Alembic tube pres as well as a number of hybrid amps. They all sounded very tubey as a DI into a recording console; none of the pres sounded like an Ampeg tube amp when used in a live setting with a power amp.
The only exception is the Mesa Walkabout which is a hybrid amp.

[Downunderwonder]

I run the same head with my rig, or else direct to PA with a Sansamp RBI. Different sounds but quite acceptable. I love that gutsy trace sound but the rbi into PA is a lot less gear to carry. I hear the Tech21 VT deluxe is the next best thing to a SVT.

Btw, after I got my head it failed, they fixed it, and it's run like a top for the last 15 years.

[Energy]

Please define "pure tube sound".

There is no such thing as "the" tube sound. The sounds of tube amps are much more diverse than the sound of solid state amps, so I'd rather speak of "the" solid state sound.

[chunkstyle]

Originally Posted by T-Bird

Hi.

SWR Interstellar Overdrive comes to mind first.

Regards
Sam

First thing that came to my mind as well.

[jgroh]

Ive been chasing this dragon for a while myself. First tube OD pedals, now moving into tube preamps. Im finding that if I want the legit tone, Im probably going to have to break down and buy a big tube amp. Most of the stuff Ive had like Sansamp, DHA, Markbass, Ampeg, does sound good, especially recording into my computer, but like Jim C said, live it is missing something.

Im getting close to getting something like an SVT Classic or VR, but my back is going to miss the 6 pound Little Mark II, especially at 2 am!

[brianrost]

What you need for "true tube sound" is a preamp that includes a small power amp and a dummy load.

The already mentioned Interstellar Overdrive is like this, also the Hughes and Kettner Cream Machine (no EQ!!!), Crunch Master and B.A.T.T. preamps. All of these can also drive a speaker but at pretty low output (1-5 watts) so they can double as home practice/recording amps.



Seems to me some other mfr has done this recently but I'm drawing a blank trying to remember who it was.
None of these are being made any more so you'll have to scrounge.

[teemuk]

^ Ironically, at least one of those units had a solid-state power amp section. Here's the bass preamp.


Also, most "tube" preamps I've seen - even those raved to give "the" tube sound - are more or less about 90% of solid-state circuitry in practice. So, it's not really tube sound at all people were listening to.

Concerning the dummy load issue, Warwick is the most recent manufacturer I can think of to use the scheme. Koch's OTS is another example and if I dig up my memory deep enough I could probably point out a handful more. Warwick's "Tubepath" series of amps feature a single-ended "power amp" circuit that is transformer coupled to a dummy load. The weak output signal is then amplified by a usual higher power SS amp. Whether it's "the" tube sound can be argued though since single-ended amp driving a resistive dummy load and a push-pull amp driving reactive speaker load are pretty much worlds apart. Basically the Hughes&Kettner "Dynavalve" amps actually captured that true high power push-pull tube amp "thing" much better - and they only used basic preamp tubes and no dummy loading at all whatsoever. But we are talking about power amps now....

To put it honestly, I also think you [original poster] are just predetermined with the erroneous idea that an amp must have tubes in order to be any good and that tubes are an instant key to tonal bliss. Today the various schemes to mimic the archetypal tube sound (assuming there even is such) are extremely advanced and pretty much nail the thing... but it naturally depends on which of the numerous tube amps you pick as an example of being the "thing". Like someone mentioned already, there's a huge variety in tones of tube amps and no single example of "the" one and only true tube amp tone can be ever be picked. Today some SS amps actually provide a far more convincing "tube amp tone" than some 100%-all-tube amps.

[edbass]

Originally Posted by teemuk

Today some SS amps actually provide a far more convincing "tube amp tone" than some 100%-all-tube amps.

Sure they do...
And another thing; why do people throw away their money on big $$ transistor amps when it's common knowledge that Behringers sound just as good for a fraction of the cost?

[father of fires]

Originally Posted by teemuk

^ Ironically, at least one of those units had a solid-state power amp section. Here's the bass preamp.


Also, most "tube" preamps I've seen - even those raved to give "the" tube sound - are more or less about 90% of solid-state circuitry in practice. So, it's not really tube sound at all people were listening to.

Concerning the dummy load issue, Warwick is the most recent manufacturer I can think of to use the scheme. Koch's OTS is another example and if I dig up my memory deep enough I could probably point out a handful more. Warwick's "Tubepath" series of amps feature a single-ended "power amp" circuit that is transformer coupled to a dummy load. The weak output signal is then amplified by a usual higher power SS amp. Whether it's "the" tube sound can be argued though since single-ended amp driving a resistive dummy load and a push-pull amp driving reactive speaker load are pretty much worlds apart. Basically the Hughes&Kettner "Dynavalve" amps actually captured that true high power push-pull tube amp "thing" much better - and they only used basic preamp tubes and no dummy loading at all whatsoever. But we are talking about power amps now....

To put it honestly, I also think you [original poster] are just predetermined with the erroneous idea that an amp must have tubes in order to be any good and that tubes are an instant key to tonal bliss. Today the various schemes to mimic the archetypal tube sound (assuming there even is such) are extremely advanced and pretty much nail the thing... but it naturally depends on which of the numerous tube amps you pick as an example of being the "thing". Like someone mentioned already, there's a huge variety in tones of tube amps and no single example of "the" one and only true tube amp tone can be ever be picked. Today some SS amps actually provide a far more convincing "tube amp tone" than some 100%-all-tube amps.

Listen to this man. I read his book and my brain still hurts (mostly because I'm an idiot).

[chadds]

I have to agree. The Glock BAC pre is a great example. I've had many a hybrid head that was no where close to this in tubishness. That's a word, right?

If you bone up for a Kern or something PTP without SS components and one that actually sends significant current to your tube(s) you will get the real deal. There are SS devices that preserve those musical harmonics, available and many don't have a tube.

It's really about what it sounds and feels like rather than what it's made of.

[Calaverasgrande]

Originally Posted by teemuk

Today the various schemes to mimic the archetypal tube sound (assuming there even is such) are extremely advanced and pretty much nail the thing... but it naturally depends on which of the numerous tube amps you pick as an example of being the "thing". Like someone mentioned already, there's a huge variety in tones of tube amps and no single example of "the" one and only true tube amp tone can be ever be picked. Today some SS amps actually provide a far more convincing "tube amp tone" than some 100%-all-tube amps.

This of course will depend on what you define "tube tone" to be.
I find that in most cases "tubetone" is usually a low pass filter and some fet distortion. On more sophisticated amps the manufacturer will employ Acronym Related Special Engineering. Which usually incorporates a compressor or expander to simulate the dynamic response of a valve amplifier.

If you are playing clean and want to avail yourself of a clean-ish tube tone, this is kind of possible.
As far as overdriven tube sounds, nothing in the world of pedals, heads or sims can really exhibit the behavior that a tube head in overdrive can. I've sincerely tried!
Also, I find that the solidstate EQ sections just dont sing (or swing) like a tube eq.
Some folks will say you can't have tube tone without a tube power section. If you are playing clean at low-med levels though I can't see how the tube power sections will really affect the tone much. IME the power section compression/grind doesnt kick in until you are really roaring.
So, yea a tube pre can work, if it has tube based EQ.

A lot of hybrid amps with a "tube pre" are not even that. They have a solid state preamp followed by a tube buffer stage which then feeds a solid state active EQ. So you end up with 5% of your preamp even being tube, and not in any significant way.
i can't even hear the tube in those boxes.

[Jeff Scott]

Originally Posted by Bassmec

There is a valve pre amp called a Fairchild 660:
BAVO DEKKER vintage audio equipment
It has a very good compressor, although it has no onboard eq that can be sorted by tacking one of these on the end:
Google Image Result for http://www.audio-hardware-emus.com/images/pultec.jpg
Did you mention a budget?.

If you don't have quite enough for that moderately pricy gear try this:
LA-610 MkII Classic Tube Recording Channel | Universal Audio

[Arlekiin]

Originally Posted by jgroh

Ive been chasing this dragon for a while myself. First tube OD pedals, now moving into tube preamps. Im finding that if I want the legit tone, Im probably going to have to break down and buy a big tube amp. Most of the stuff Ive had like Sansamp, DHA, Markbass, Ampeg, does sound good, especially recording into my computer, but like Jim C said, live it is missing something.

Im getting close to getting something like an SVT Classic or VR, but my back is going to miss the 6 pound Little Mark II, especially at 2 am!

So true, im on the same quest myself with my Little Rocker 500 And im already keeping my eye on few Mesa 400+'s to get one and be done with it.
I would still probably gig some gigs with my rocker (uknow when you run out quickly to do a gig and it can be decent at loud volumes with VTBass etc but still I want real TUBES in my powersection it seems).

[OOZMAN]

Originally Posted by jgroh

Ive been chasing this dragon for a while myself. First tube OD pedals, now moving into tube preamps. Im finding that if I want the legit tone, Im probably going to have to break down and buy a big tube amp. Most of the stuff Ive had like Sansamp, DHA, Markbass, Ampeg, does sound good, especially recording into my computer, but like Jim C said, live it is missing something.

Im getting close to getting something like an SVT Classic or VR, but my back is going to miss the 6 pound Little Mark II, especially at 2 am!

I read up to here and no further because I believe this is all you need to know.

peace.

[tocs100]

Originally Posted by Jeff Scott

If you don't have quite enough for that moderately pricy gear try this:
LA-610 MkII Classic Tube Recording Channel | Universal Audio

Yup. Click my band-link in my sig to hear our 4-song "EP 1" free. LA-610 used on all bass guitar and vocals.

[Son of Bovril]

I found the Fender TBP-1 preamp to be quite tubey sounding/feeling, or at least more so than my eden nav or VT-Bass which are both recognised as having pretty good tube sounding tones

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

I run the same head with my rig, or else direct to PA with a Sansamp RBI. Different sounds but quite acceptable. I love that gutsy trace sound but the rbi into PA is a lot less gear to carry. I hear the Tech21 VT deluxe is the next best thing to a SVT.

in the under-$200 category, most definitely. but that big dynamic feeling is missing out of any non-tube amp i've played, so if you don't get an all-tuber, you will have to do without that. you can cop the tones pretty well with select ss gear imho, but there's a reason why the all-tube svt's haven't been discontinued.