tube vs SS in crispness and clearity.

[tfernandez]

I'm thinking about an amp upgrade with my extra college money. For a solidstate amp I know I would go with a GK RB1001 II w/ GK Neo 212. I like the idea of switching to a tube amp but finding tube amps to test is difficult. I played a newer SVT at a guitar center once that didn't show very impressive results (could have been that it was messed up due to lack of care.) I just curious as to how different of a sound I will get from a tube amp. I like having a very clear/crisp tone and I've heard tube amps tend to warm the sound more. I guess you could say I like a more "modern" sound and I'm not really looking to have that vintage tone. what options could I consider in tube amps?

sorry if it sounds a little rambly.

for those with short attentions spans: will a tube amp give me a super crisp modern sound that SS amps generally have, and if so, what brands/models should I check out that wouldn't break the bank?

[bongomania]

The reality is there's no "one way" that tube or ss sounds. Tube is stereotypically associated with warm/fat/mushy, but there are plenty of very articulate, even high-fidelity tube amps. SS is stereotypically associated with crispness and clarity, but there are plenty of mushy, inarticulate ss amps too.

You have to take it on a case-by-case basis, rather than thinking you need one or the other type.

[Greevus]

SS def can be crisp and clear. far more affordable than tubes, and weigh a hell of a lot less. in some cases, $300/500 watts/4 lbs versus $1000/300 watts/85 lbs.

[JimmyM]

it's all good but i like tubes because i just don't get the level of clarity in ss amps that i get in tube amps. always viewed ss as a compromise. didn't stop me from using ss for a while, but i'm quite happy to be back on the tubes, even though they are quite heavy. big deal...i can take it.

[johnk_10]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

it's all good but i like tubes because i just don't get the level of clarity in ss amps that i get in tube amps. always viewed ss as a compromise...............

+1

[Munjibunga]

Heart-Rock = crisp and clear.

[Son of Bovril]

On the Modern SS side of things I would suggest trying out an EBS HD350 or TD650 as well as some of the SWR stuff. The eden hybrids are still quite modern sounding but can give you a bit of that tube bloom and gring if you like. Genz Benz Hybrids are quite modern sounding too. The GK is not as modern clean counding as some of the others I mentioned but can get a nice bit of grit for Rock music as well.

depends on the tone you have in your head, for some people only tubes can get that sound. It's very difficult to describe the difference between tubes and ss without adding in the fact that there are different degrees of both ss and tube amps

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by bongomania

You have to take it on a case-by-case basis, rather than thinking you need one or the other type.

+1. There is far more diversity in the sound of SS than tubes. That's because there's no such thing as a low end versus high end tube. While some manufacturers charge more than others it remains that a tube is a tube is a tube. With SS the preamp may be loaded with ten cent utility grade integrated circuit chips, or ten dollar audiophile grade chips, or discrete components. If you're looking for the highest quality it will be found in discrete preamp/power amp rigs, but the highest quality may not sound any better to you than a pawn shop prize.

[JoshuaTSP]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0ta-8XD7Sc

[anderbass]

Originally Posted by tfernandez

will a tube amp give me a super crisp modern sound that SS amps generally have, and if so, what brands/models should I check out that wouldn't break the bank?

A Mesa Buster head or combo will, you could probably find a nice used one somewhere in the $600 range.
Check out some of our older threads here about the Buster, its just what your looking for.

[Greevus]

I love tubes, but I wouldn't call them "crisp". There is a "perceived lag", just like their an increased "perceived volume". You can get a clean tone from them, but I would argue that the best clean tones are SS users. And "not breaking the bank" ain't gonna equal tubes. Crisp/clear/cheap=SOLID STATE. Carry your heavy SVTs and remain pure. No one is fighting you. Dude asked an affordable "either/or" question. GK and Hartke both meet the requirements.

[seamonkey]

Crispness and Clarity aren't terms used to measure amplifiers.
There are other measurements listed for pro gear.
For pro amps, you can listen to one amp you like the measurements for and go buy another that matched closely.
Pre-amps are where all the tone would come from.

Tube amps aren't made for MI to be HiFi except MarkBass with it's hi-fi setting. What people hear to be clean and crisp may not be at all - but actually be some distortion they like.

[Greevus]

It's all subjective. Listen to Victor Wooten or Stu Hamm playing their newer Hartkes and see if they don't sound "clear" and "crisp". Then compare the price to an SVT. Just saying.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by tfernandez

I'm thinking about an amp upgrade with my extra college money. For a solidstate amp I know I would go with a GK RB1001 II w/ GK Neo 212. I like the idea of switching to a tube amp but finding tube amps to test is difficult. I played a newer SVT at a guitar center once that didn't show very impressive results (could have been that it was messed up due to lack of care.) I just curious as to how different of a sound I will get from a tube amp. I like having a very clear/crisp tone and I've heard tube amps tend to warm the sound more. I guess you could say I like a more "modern" sound and I'm not really looking to have that vintage tone. what options could I consider in tube amps?

sorry if it sounds a little rambly.

for those with short attentions spans: will a tube amp give me a super crisp modern sound that SS amps generally have, and if so, what brands/models should I check out that wouldn't break the bank?

If you like it crisp and clean, why in the world would you consider a tube amp... much heavier, much larger, much more cost, a bit more fussy, and in general, not particularly crisp, and clean only up to a certain volume level.

I don't understand your motivation. The best thing to do is check out what backline the general type of player who has a tone you like is using. For the 'crisp and clean' articulate players (Tommy Kennedy, James Genus, Victor Wooten, Marcus Miller, Alain Caron, etc., etc., etc., etc.), while some may use a preamp with a tube in it, I can't think of one of those types of players who would bother with a tube power section. Definitely not the way to go on so many levels (tone, cost, reliability/hassle', weight, and most importantly, tone).

Playing oldies or classic rock or old school country or whatever, or grinding headbanger stuff... OK, I get it. Otherwise, forget about it.

IMO and IME.

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

I wouldn't say that any amp--tube or SS--has a "perceived lag" unless it has a delay effect built in, or it's at least a couple hundred feet away.

On good amps, crispness and clarity are what you get if you actually put crispness and clarity into them.

[RickenBoogie]

I agree, it's all subjective, and you can't lump all tube amps together anymore than you can lump all SS amps together. Yopu just need to go out in the world, and get some playing time on a variety of amps. Lots of 'em. After a while, (a long while), you'll start to get a feel for how different rigs react to your particular playing style, and it will become obvious what amp works best for you. I also agree that the Mesa Buster has a very solid state feel to it, and it could be described as crisp and clean. But, it is a tube amp, and has some of that *feel* as well. Point being- don't make assumptions, but rather, gain expirience.

[MK1]

The Mesa Boogie 400+ is a nice "clean" tube amp, but it can also dirty up quite nicely if need be. You should really check out the GK 800RB, I find that both tube and SS guys really like this amp, any time a house has supplied a backline I either get an Ampeg SVT or a GK 800RB and I much prefer the GK.

[Jim C]

Originally Posted by tfernandez

I guess you could say I like a more "modern" sound and I'm not really looking to have that vintage tone. what options could I consider in tube amps?

will a tube amp give me a super crisp modern sound that SS amps generally have,

Based on the above, it sounds like what you are searching for is a modern sound and that you are wondering if a tube amp will give you a crisp SS sound.

I don't disagree with your assumptions and if you are going to make a choice without listening go with SS.

I don't have any experience with any MI tube amp that would sound super hi-fi like some of the other SS offerings
For cheap, try a used SWR SM400; I don't use mine as it's too hi-fi and nearly sterile in my hands for the current band project

[tfernandez]

when I say break the bank, I mean not 2 grand for just a head, but maybe 1-2k for the full rig. and my interest in trying out tube amps is stemmed from the rounding they do rather then clipping the notes like SS amps do. Plus I won't know if I like tube amps more then SS amps unless I give them a try at least once. so mainly more of a curiosity about the sound they give. not to mention, my guitarist uses all tube amps and it sounds amazing compared to when he is playing on an SS amp. he uses a bugera just for reference (I do know how a lot of you feel about bugera as a company and the quality though)

[JimmyM]

so yeah, this "tube amps can't do hi fi" crap again...run them through a good 2 or 3 way cab then tell me that. i've done it...it hi fi's right up.

oh yeah, i forgot...the thd specs on tube amps are higher, right? well look, if i can't hear it, it isn't distorting. whammo.

but that's ok...they make different amps for different people for a reason. as for me, i'm sticking with tubes until i just get too old and decrepit to move them around.