Tubes: Okay I get it, will the audience?

[fish slapper]

So I was fooling around in the practice room and decided to try out some pre's and pedals I have gathered around with kind of an critical ear for what I really need and what needs to go away.

Among the clutter I found an ART PAC pre I acquired a while ago. So... first trying with my geetar (yes, I have one of those) and was getting some good classic overdrive distortion if I pushed the gain to 11 Next, I got out my Clement fret-less and started A/B/C ing it to a SansAmp paradriver, and none. All this was done through my Cafe Walter headphone amp which is uber clean into a fairly decent pair of headphones.

Sooo, okay, like the title says, I get it. Tubes were better to my ear. Of course, with the PAC you get pre and compressor so part of it was a really kick ass tube optical compressor built in. The question of the day: is it worth putting in my live rig? I can hear the difference in my headphones at my house with no ambient noise. Will an audience hear it in a band setting with drums, guitars, chatting, tinkling of beer glasses, etc.?

[Adam Barkley]

Are you asking whether the audience would notice if you had an overdriven signal? Yeah they probably would or think the guitar was really distorted.

[superbassman2000]

I don't think the audience cares whether it's SS vs. tube, but i think they would notice how well the instruments mesh together and if tubes help that, then yes.

[fish slapper]

Oops. Sorry, forgot that piece. Yes, I got it to overdrive on the Bass but barely. While it would barely distort on bass it distorted a whole bunch on guitar. Actually, the SansAmp was easier to distort either way.

But then I dialed it back with an ear for "tube tone" and not necessarily distortion. That's where I was getting what my ears hear as "classic tube tone." Warm, round but dialed down so not to be flabby.

[KramerBassFan]

Most people have never even heard of tubes these days, let alone care whether the amplifier being used by you is Tube or SS.

[BassmanPaul]

Originally Posted by KramerBassFan

Most people have never even heard of tubes these days, let alone care whether the amplifier being used by you is Tube or SS.

Precisely!

[jmbjandfam]

I care, I think tubes or hybrid tube pre's are much better so that is what I use.

But as previous posters have stated, I doubt the audience knows or cares.

[groooooove]

the better sound your getting will not be consciously be heard by any non-musician, or non-bassist, really. but it will add to the sound of the ensemble, (assuming the sounds are appropriate) and in that way, yeah, they're noticing it. just not specifically.

[BurningSkies]

Who cares if the audience picks up on the tonal nuances of your setup.

If YOU notice and it inspires you or even just makes you enjoy playing that much more, then its worth it.

[username1]

Most people focus on the singer and possibly the guitarist and dont even know what bass is. The only people who will notice your bass amp is mabe another bassist in the audience. I dont even try to pretend anyone can tell if Im getting a good bass sound, i do it for my own satisfaction.

[will33]

I'd also say it's for you the player. Most of the audience won't hear little nuances in tone. They do know what sounds good/what they like. They know what sounds professional and what doesn't. They can distinguish bright/dark, thin/fat, piercing/warm, clean/dirty, loud/soft etc. but they don't have a clue if there is a tube in your signal chain and don't care. They just know if it sounds good so make whatever you've got sound good. If that means putting a tube effect in front of it, fine.

[gbarchus]

I guess the question is: How important is your stage sound and does it translate to the audience?

Not getting the right sound on stage used to frustrate me to no end. There are so many variables, some of which were out of my control. Now, I aim for the best sound I can get in the least amount of time. If I'm going through a PA, I let the soundman do his thing and hope. I have discovered I can live with that.

I almost always play through all-tube amps but can be happy with SS, too.

Gale

[seamonkey]

Turning on and off compression/distortion is a great effect, even in the middle of a song. Always on and listener fatigue can set in. Even guitarist have a foot pedal. Mix it up, don't get stuck on one sound.

[throbbinnut]

I play through an all-tube setup, and I don't know if the audience notices the sound exactly, but they do get into it when the bass is "so round, so firm, so fully-packed." My 80-Watt homemade head into a single Altec Lansing 15 gets me right at the sweet spot where the amp is starting to compress/distort, and it makes the bass sound full without rattling the tables or clanking eardrums like a modern SS hi-fi rig can/does. I think we sound better as a band because of my fat, low-fi sound, but I don't think the audiences knows why or cares.

Chris

[solarplexus]

Fish Slapper: I also have an ART Tubepac preamp that I use for recording vocals and bass. How do you plug it into your amp? Just directly into the input? This is a very nice tube preamp and the compressor works very well, I would love to try it with my amp for recording with a mic.

[rllefebv]

Ha! Well Mark, you already know where I personally stand on this issue!!

Except for other musicians (and possibly not even then) the audience really doesn't care. For me, personally, I go for tube every chance that I can, but sometimes it ain't practical... I do know that I like my sound better when playing through one of my tube rigs, but I can get a totally workable sound through most of my gear that will translate equally well from the bandstand to the audience...

I liken our tone-quest to that of other musicians... "What is pleasing to me" is more inspiring that "What does the audience hear"... My drummer is a case in point... He plays some pretty classic old ludwig sets, and raves about the subtle tonal differences between each one... Yeah, with a close listening I can almost hear a difference Once you throw the full band in the mix, his $3500 kit sounds as good as his $300 'beater' kit... It all comes down to which one he likes playing better that day (and to his everlasting credit, sometimes he grins like a little kid, shaking his head in wonder at just how good his $300 kit sounds!)...

Play the gear you love!

-r

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by fish slapper

I can hear the difference in my headphones at my house with no ambient noise. Will an audience hear it in a band setting with drums, guitars, chatting, tinkling of beer glasses, etc.?

If they get laid they will praise your tone mightily.

[fish slapper]

Originally Posted by solarplexus

Fish Slapper: I also have an ART Tubepac preamp that I use for recording vocals and bass. How do you plug it into your amp? Just directly into the input? This is a very nice tube preamp and the compressor works very well, I would love to try it with my amp for recording with a mic.

I've tried this live both just into the input as an "effect" (as one would a pedal), and into the return input on the effect loop using it as a pre-amp. Honestly, the only difference is if I need EQ as there is no tone controls on the PAC (I believe ART made a companion EQ to go with the PAC). I've pretty much chosen my basses and speaker cabinets for their tone and don't rely a whole bunch on the pre for EQ. And if you have an active bass, you are essentially using three pre-amps in the chain which seem ridiculous. Those with higher tech knowledge than me can address, "preamping the pre."

But for me, another factor is simplicity. The one downside of using the PAC is its a separate little box to take, keep track of. If its not gonna make a difference in a performance sitch, I'd rather do without.

[fish slapper]

Originally Posted by Passinwind

If they get laid they will praise your tone mightily.

True dat, Charlie!

[nysbob]

Whatever makes you happiest when you're playing is the correct answer.

The audience will only notice if your amp fails completely or you play a seriously wrong note. That's just the reality of the situation.