Two 210RBHs or two Neo 112s?

dougjwray · #1 07-15-2011, 03:44 AM

Currently, I have one GK 210RBH which sounds great, but it lacks some authority when I'm playing with one of my bands, a Southern rock/classic rock band (two guitars into Marshall half stacks, keyboards, sax/harp, drums). I'd add another 210RBH, but am considering helping out my back by replacing what I have with two GK Neo 112s.
Obviously, two 12s are less than four 10s, but I'm wondering whether I'd be any better off than I am now. We play in bars with no PA help for the bass.
I like the idea of two 112s (rather than a single 212 cab) because some other projects I'm involved with require less volume, and I could carry one 112 to those.
I'd be using a GK 1001RBII, by the way. Fender Precision and/or Jazz Basses.
So, would two Neo 112s stand up to an all-out drunken "Whipping Post" at 2:00 AM? ;^)
Thanks!

MysticMichael · #2 07-15-2011, 04:32 AM

I reckon they would. Especially with that 1001RB-II, which will deliver a boatload of power to them.

Of course, you may very well still have to crank it, since you're up against two Marshall half-stacks - to say nothing of the drums and others instruments. The key, as ever, is to persuade the guitars and drums to keep the volume under enough control to allow you the opportunity to blend at an appropriate volume level - without having to blow down the walls!

Good luck with that...

MM

dougjwray · #3 07-15-2011, 05:49 AM

Yes, I've been at this for decades, and I know all about the endless "persuading the other guys to turn down" saga.
I guess another way for me to ask my question is: I know that two 15s would cut it, but would two 12s not be a very significant step down? The two 12s sounded great when I tried them out at good ol' Guitar Center -- beautiful tone -- but would they have the stridency, rudeness, "barkiness" to put them in same ballpark as two 15s or four 10s?
BTW, I tried a 115RBH in conjunction with the 210RBH, and didn't like the combination-- it was hard for me to get fat (phat) mids out of it.
Thanks for the answer, MM!
Anyone else?

dougjwray · #4 07-15-2011, 05:53 AM

I should stress that it's the weight factor which is making me even consider the Neos. Otherwise, I'd certainly get a second 210RBH.

billfitzmaurice · #5 07-15-2011, 06:06 AM

Output is limited by driver displacement. A 210 averages 300cc, a 112 averages 250cc. Do the math. Then there's the matter of cab height. The biggest problem hearing yourself is your mids passing you by below the waist. A pair of 210s will get the mids up where you can hear them far better than a pair of 112s. BTW, 210s are available in neo.

dougjwray · #6 07-15-2011, 06:46 AM

Thanks, Bill. There's no denying the math, true.
Yes, good point: I should investigate the Neo 210s... it's just that all the ones I'm discussing have shown up used, recently, so I've been thinking about those choices.
And I'm less worried about hearing myself than about the audience hearing me. For at least 15 years, I've been using just one cabinet (of one kind or another) on the floor or stage with everything going past my knees.

dougjwray · #7 07-15-2011, 09:10 AM

Okay, one more question and then I'll leave it alone for awhile...

Do people who have gigging experience with this configuration (two Neo 112s) find that they can sonically "get under" your typical, deaf Gibson/Marshall guitarist (or two), a loud drummer and keys? I know that these cabs have pleasing, smooth, even tone, but do they have the oomph to fill out the BOTTOM of the mix? When I tried out the pair in the store with a GK 1001RB II head, I had to crank the contour control up all the way to get a fat tone; by contrast, I typically have the contour all the way OFF with my 210RBH cab, at gigs, to get some definition. I tend to be a "feel it first, then tweak *just enough* to hear it" kind of guy. I'm wondering whether you can hear the 112s more than feel them. BTW, 115 cabs tend to be too "boxy" for me, these days.

Thank you, thank you...

The Diaper Geni · #8 07-15-2011, 12:07 PM

I'll go out on a limb and say: No, two 1x12's aren't going to cut it. Or they will just barely be able to cut it which will increase the chances for equipment failure.

Apples and oranges and all that...But that's my opinion.

Good luck!

**jlepre** · #9 07-15-2011, 01:22 PM

For the record 15's are ALSO available in NEO. So that may be your solution.

I have run (2) 112 Epi cabs with a very loud drummer and 2 guitarists with half stacks, and had no problem being heard without PA support. The real trick is to make sure that you hold down the BOTTOM of the mix, and EQ accordingly. Make sure that no one else is crowding your sonic space.

I hope this helps, plus I liked the flexibility of using 1 or 2 12's for any given situation.

dougjwray · #10 07-15-2011, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Diaper Geni

I'll go out on a limb and say: No, two 1x12's aren't going to cut it. Or they will just barely be able to cut it which will increase the chances for equipment failure.

Apples and oranges and all that...But that's my opinion.

Good luck!

Yeah, that's pretty much my gut instinct, too. What I'll probably end up doing is buying them, trying them out on a gig, and returning them if they don't stack up, so to speak. (Actually trying them out-- what a concept...)

dougjwray · #11 07-15-2011, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlepre

For the record 15's are ALSO available in NEO. So that may be your solution.

I have run (2) 112 Epi cabs with a very loud drummer and 2 guitarists with half stacks, and had no problem being heard without PA support. The real trick is to make sure that you hold down the BOTTOM of the mix, and EQ accordingly. Make sure that no one else is crowding your sonic space.

I hope this helps, plus I liked the flexibility of using 1 or 2 12's for any given situation.

Well, as I said earlier, I'm not too happy with 15s these days.
But thanks for the positive report on the two 112s. The flexibility would be great, as well as the lower weight. Just to make things more complicated, the 210RBH (which I would get instead, to pair with the one I already have) has apparently been discontinued, and there's a used one for sale, close by, right now.

birminghambass · #12 07-15-2011, 02:25 PM

I've played every combination of GK Neo out there. IMO 2 1x12 cabs won't get you where you want to be. My Neo 2x10 is easily louder and deeper than my Neo 1x12.

groove pump · #13 07-15-2011, 04:23 PM

I'm one of these guys who had to ditch my 4x10 for a pair of 2x10's when I got a smaller car. Although my cabs aren't lightweight neo designs, it's certainly a lot less "interesting" when I'm loading in/out by myself. Even though I've got to make an extra trip for the extra box, I haven't missed the 4x10 one bit. The pair of 2x10's are the same SWR Workingman's line as the 4x10 they replaced, but I'm convinced that the smaller boxes outperform the big box.

Although your situation is more about portability of each cab you use, I think you'd be able to do whatever you want with a pair of neo 2x10's, along with plenty of power to push them. Your smaller rig would be easy enough to get around and your bigger alternative layout would make huge sound, yet still be plenty portable.

woundround · #14 07-15-2011, 07:28 PM

I gig 2 112s under a 700 rb11 plenty loud enough ,for large venues the front end takes over and they become just monitors anyway.(I play lots of gigs with that set up not mic d or di d )...It does nt matter what genre of music you play excessive stage volumes make for a crap mix 10 s sound completely different than 12 s so pick the tone you like over what s louder, My 2 112 s replaced a 410

MysticMichael · #15 07-16-2011, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougjwray

BTW, I tried a 115RBH in conjunction with the 210RBH, and didn't like the combination-- it was hard for me to get fat (phat) mids out of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougjwray

BTW, 115 cabs tend to be too "boxy" for me, these days.

I feel the need to challenge you here a little bit, Doug. Given that you're not fond of the 1x15 cabs you've heard, have you really given a fair listen to the GK Neo 115-IIIs?

Now I've not heard these cabs personally, so I can't speak from experience. But I do read a lot of cab/amp threads here, and I read a lot of amp/cab reviews, and I've gotta tell ya, the GK Neo 115-III gets a lot of love from the players who've gigged one - or two. Only four inches taller than the 1x12 version, and only two inches deeper. But will undoubtedly move a lot more air, with even deeper lows - while retaining a lot of definition in the midrange.

That 1001RB-II you own is simply perfect for two of these. No problem doing the Berry Oakley on Whipping Post, for sure...

MM

The Diaper Geni · #16 07-16-2011, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougjwray

What I'll probably end up doing is buying them, trying them out on a gig, and returning them if they don't stack up, so to speak. (Actually trying them out-- what a concept...)

What is this "trying them out" you speak of?? This concept does not compute with my brain. It's like trying to comprehend the vastness of the universe.

I'm a big fan of 15's, so it's a biased opinion, but try out a good 1x15. A good one. Tone is less a factor of speaker size than it is a factor of a speaker/cab combination. If that makes sense. IOW: Free your mind and you're a** will follow.

woundround · #17 07-18-2011, 10:40 PM

a 12 inch speaker in any box will sound diff. than a 2 10, you can play with all the physics in the world but a 12 in. speaker has an inherint midrange growl that in some cabs can be a bit honky as in eden single 12 s but i ve never heard any 2 10 0r 410 sound even close to a cab with 12 s...this just my opinion . for me I m liking the light weight ez load of 2 single 12s and i find the gk neo have a great growly bark

anonymous101511 · #18 07-19-2011, 06:59 AM

Hey Doug, the 1x12 is a disappointing cab. The 1x15" has a ton more overall sound, I have several of both. It has a very quick and bright tone and is quite light; good for your purposes. I've used two 1x15 GK neo cabs on pretty loud gigs with a 1001 head and it's worked very well. You might really like the sound of the 2x10 on top of the 1x15. In summary, I really wouldn't recommend the 1x12 for you, another 2x10 would be far better and better than that would be adding a 1x15. :-)

RichEagle78 · #19 07-19-2011, 07:25 AM

I use a 700RB or sometimes a 500MBII to power 1 or sometimes 2 new 112s - they pack small and light and sound amazing - I play large venues incuding outdoor shows - each cabinet is about 30 lbs. Had a 115RBH and got rid of it. LB for LB, don't think you can beat the neo 112s

DWBass · #20 07-19-2011, 07:53 AM

I have 2 sets of 1x12's. 2 Epi PS112's and 2 GK Neo112's. They both pack a lot of sound when paired together. My band CAN get loud at times when our guitarist shows up with his BIG rig! I have no problem being heard. Did a gig last week with the GK's and all I heard were compliments on how the bass was 'felt' throughout the venue. Having said that, I miss having 10's in the mix and may trade those GK Neo112's for the 2x10's versions. The GK Neo112's are insanely light though!