two 210s or 210 and a 115

[geremia]

hey all...been a while, but I don't spend to much time on the computer (unless i'm looking to buy something)...anyway...I have a markbass lmii and currently have it paired with an avatar 8 ohm 210...love the sound, but I'm looking to get the full power of my amp...i see that avatar now makes a 115...so i'm lloking for opinions...should i match the cab or add a big old 15 to the mix...i play both 4 and 5 strings pretty evenly, so the low b does come into play...thoughts?

[GrowlerBox]

Lots of stuff on TB about this. Short answer -- 2 x 210s. Mixing drivers is unpredictable at best. May work, but may be awful. If you like the sound of your 210, you'll really like the sound of 2 of them.

[esa372]

I've been using 1x15/2x10 (or 2x15/4x10) combos since '96; always have great sound, and never have problems.

Though, here on TB, most will tell you not to mix speaker sizes, and just match the cab you already have.

[mowburger]

I've been lurking on this kinda thing for a while.

but The question I wanted to ask was more on the lines of 2x210's OR 2x115's? I'm deff thinking that mathing cabs is the way to go unless you have two power sections, it makes more sense to power identical cabs with the same power section.

I'd recomend getting an identical avatar 2x10.

[JimmyM]

i like both two 210 rigs and two 115 rigs. all depends on how they're made. never liked mixing them, even before i learned why i shouldn't on here.

[SpectorDetector]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

i like both two 210 rigs and two 115 rigs. all depends on how they're made. never liked mixing them, even before i learned why i shouldn't on here.

Why aren't crossovers used more often for the cabs? It doesn't make sense to run the same signal to different sized speakers....does it? Am I missing something? It would help take care of phase issues. It'd be cool to direct everything from a certain freq down to a 15 and then the top signal to 2x10 or even a 2X8.

[RickenBoogie]

Originally Posted by SpectorDetector

Why aren't crossovers used more often for the cabs? It doesn't make sense to run the same signal to different sized speakers....does it? Am I missing something? It would help take care of phase issues. It'd be cool to direct everything from a certain freq down to a 15 and then the top signal to 2x10 or even a 2X8.

Speaker size means absolutely nothing. Fact is, most ANY commercially available bass cab is "full range", meaning not dedicated as a sub woofer- so biamping makes no sense when using full range cabs. To the OP, try both- buy what sounds best. Logic says 2x 210's will sound better, but your ears are the final judge.

[SpectorDetector]

I'm talking about taking an existing 2x10 and adding a 15. That's not a full range cab. Say they are both 8 ohm and you are running them parallel, they are only 4 ohm where they are duplicating the same frequencies, makes no sense...

[SpectorDetector]

Seperate cabs should be modular versions of this type design:http://www.drbasscabs.com/3-way___LF_cabinets.html

[geremia]

thanks for all the feedback...
sure, i'd love to try them both out, but avatar is a custom made cabinet with no trial period....i've toyed with the idea of just buying a 4 ohm 410, but for me, two small 210s is easier to transport than one big one...anyway, keep sending your thoughts, i'll let you know what i do...

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by geremia

thanks for all the feedback...
sure, i'd love to try them both out, but avatar is a custom made cabinet with no trial period....i've toyed with the idea of just buying a 4 ohm 410, but for me, two small 210s is easier to transport than one big one...anyway, keep sending your thoughts, i'll let you know what i do...

avatars are not custom made cabs. they have set models they sell that you can't customize other than finish.

[GrowlerBox]

Originally Posted by SpectorDetector

I'm talking about taking an existing 2x10 and adding a 15. That's not a full range cab. Say they are both 8 ohm and you are running them parallel, they are only 4 ohm where they are duplicating the same frequencies, makes no sense...

The final 3-word phrase here is the only part of the post that did make sense. Assuming you've acquired each of these cabs as a bass cab (off the shelf, custom-built, whatever), they are designed to reproduce the full range of the bass. Different cabinets (i.e. speaker + box + ports + other design features) will succeed to different degrees, of course, and will reproduce different parts of the bass spectrum differently. The resistance of the speaker itself plays essentially no role in this (except insofar as it may indirectly affect other parameters that do bear directly on the matter), but acts merely as a throttle on the power output of the amplifier. The amp itself may act a little differently, and not only with respect to its maximum output, but it has little or no bearing on the frequency-handling of the cabinet.

[sleepytime]

Originally Posted by geremia

thanks for all the feedback...
sure, i'd love to try them both out, but avatar is a custom made cabinet with no trial period....i've toyed with the idea of just buying a 4 ohm 410, but for me, two small 210s is easier to transport than one big one...anyway, keep sending your thoughts, i'll let you know what i do...

I have recently switched to using two Avatar B210's and I love the setup. I am currently looking to pick up a second Line-X cab and sell my carpeted cab. Also looking to pick up a GK MB200. The full lineup will be:

Hartke LH500
GK MB200
Avatar Line-X B210 x 2

...which will adapt to provide a practice rig, a rehearsal rig, and a gig rig with redundant amps and cabs in case of failure. All for under $1000.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by sleepytime

I have recently switched to using two Avatar B210's and I love the setup. I am currently looking to pick up a second Line-X cab and sell my carpeted cab. Also looking to pick up a GK MB200. The full lineup will be:

Hartke LH500
GK MB200
Avatar Line-X B210 x 2

...which will adapt to provide a practice rig, a rehearsal rig, and a gig rig with redundant amps and cabs in case of failure. All for under $1000.

nothing wrong with that!

[SpectorDetector]

Originally Posted by GrowlerBox

The final 3-word phrase here is the only part of the post that did make sense. Assuming you've acquired each of these cabs as a bass cab (off the shelf, custom-built, whatever), they are designed to reproduce the full range of the bass. Different cabinets (i.e. speaker + box + ports + other design features) will succeed to different degrees, of course, and will reproduce different parts of the bass spectrum differently. The resistance of the speaker itself plays essentially no role in this (except insofar as it may indirectly affect other parameters that do bear directly on the matter), but acts merely as a throttle on the power output of the amplifier. The amp itself may act a little differently, and not only with respect to its maximum output, but it has little or no bearing on the frequency-handling of the cabinet.

I'm not sure how you can say a 1x15 cab and a 2x10 cab are each "full range" I guess that that's the break in communication. A cab with 2x18 with 2x10, some 2x5 and then some tweeter/horns would be "full range" Also, I'm not sure how the lows that a 2x10 can't get to that the 1x15 can are not going to be affected because it is still 8 ohm instead of 4ohm. Unless it's an amp that doesn't double it's power into 4 ohms from 8ohm rating. Impedance is frequency dependent.

[GrowlerBox]

Originally Posted by SpectorDetector

I'm not sure how you can say a 1x15 cab and a 2x10 cab are each "full range" I guess that that's the break in communication. A cab with 2x18 with 2x10, some 2x5 and then some tweeter/horns would be "full range" Also, I'm not sure how the lows that a 2x10 can't get to that the 1x15 can are not going to be affected because it is still 8 ohm instead of 4ohm. Unless it's an amp that doesn't double it's power into 4 ohms from 8ohm rating. Impedance is frequency dependent.

Speaker size per se has nothing to do with its range. If a particular 210 cabinet can't achieve the lows a particular 115 can, then that has do do with a whole range of other variables to do with the speaker itself (e.g. vmax) and the design of the cabinet it's housed in. The reverse situation (i.e. particular 115s that can't reproduce the lows achieved by other 210s) also frequently occurs. The cabinet you describe would also be full range, but would only work with some pretty elaborate crossovers, or you'd run into all sorts of unpredictable (at least by me) phasing problems.

There are many, many threads addressing this and related issues here. Posts by Bill Fitzmaurice, Greenboy, rpsands, JimmyM, Sundogue (sorry if I've forgotten others of the more informed participants - you know who you are!) are all particularly helpful, and I've learnt a lot by lurking in those threads.

Happy reading

[GrowlerBox]

Sorry -- I forgot to address the second half of the response. I am not a professional audio engineer or anything of the sort, merely an interested amateur, so anything I say here (or anywhere else for that matter!) should be checked against your own research into reliable sources. That said, as I understand it, the input impedance of the speaker is frequency-dependent, but this of more importance when considering the potential for frying your amplifier's output transistors with too much current than it is for determining the frequency spectrum a bass cabinet will deliver on.

[RickenBoogie]

Originally Posted by SpectorDetector

I'm not sure how you can say a 1x15 cab and a 2x10 cab are each "full range" I guess that that's the break in communication. A cab with 2x18 with 2x10, some 2x5 and then some tweeter/horns would be "full range" Also, I'm not sure how the lows that a 2x10 can't get to that the 1x15 can are not going to be affected because it is still 8 ohm instead of 4ohm. Unless it's an amp that doesn't double it's power into 4 ohms from 8ohm rating. Impedance is frequency dependent.

I think you're confusing "full range" with a 2-way, or 3-way speaker system. In the example you gave, with a 3-way system, you'd be running 3 seperate poweramps, and a crossover for each. A bass cab IS a FULL range cab, by definition. It is meant to reproduce the FULL range of a bass guitar, no matter whether it's a 2x10, 1x15, 1x18, 4x10, 2x12, etc etc. Just because bass cab A is a 1x15, and bass cab B is a 2x10, has NO bearing on what frequencies it will reproduce.

[SpectorDetector]

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

I think you're confusing "full range" with a 2-way, or 3-way speaker system. In the example you gave, with a 3-way system, you'd be running 3 seperate poweramps, and a crossover for each. A bass cab IS a FULL range cab, by definition. It is meant to reproduce the FULL range of a bass guitar, no matter whether it's a 2x10, 1x15, 1x18, 4x10, 2x12, etc etc. Just because bass cab A is a 1x15, and bass cab B is a 2x10, has NO bearing on what frequencies it will reproduce.

Yeah, I know exactly what i am saying, whether the crossovers are passive like the Dr Bass examples I was using or active and using multiple power amps, my point is that these two examples are the way I think it "should be" I am surprised that with all the people interested in "hifi" sounding bass ,that the amplification technology to the average player is in the stone ages. Sting has been running a 3 way rig for years now and he just plays some ancient 4 string Fender.

[jlepre]

So then putting this 15 and say a B210 NEO is not a good idea?