U5 vs 737

[Son of Bovril]

How different is the sound of an Avalon U5 to their 737 model?

the 737 has tubes and compressors and eq etc but I'm talking about it's flat unaffected tone in relation to the U5 without using any of it's eq presets...

[johnk_10]

i have a VT737SP and i absolutely love it. sorry i can't help. i've never played thru a U5 (i've heard that they're completely different, but they're also 'mahvelous').

[Nightbass]

A properly designed tube mic pre can be as flat as a bipolar or FET mic pre, but nevertheless there *is* a certain sound to tubes which I have a hard time quantifying. And the tube sound will also depend on the specific tubes employed. I like the U5 better than the 737 because the U5 is just so clean, pure and has gobs of headroom. It's alive, it's open, and it breathes freely. The 737 will sound a little more "colored" and will have a bit of natural tube compression. If you replace the stock tubes with new JJs or NOS Telefunkens, then you'll change the character of the 737 even more.

I also prefer the FET side of the Millennia STT-1 to the tube side. It's simpy "perfection in three dimensions". The ambience and air is unreal if you've never heard it before. The tube side has character which I think takes a studio setting to appreciate.

The ideal pre for me would be the U5 in a 1U rack, or a mono version of the Millennia HV-3 with a few tone presets. With the sound of your bass going straight to a quality power amp, the tone is in your fingers, bass and the cab. I think of this as the Anthony Jackson approach.

But if I wanted lots of juicy tube phat coloration, I'd reach for the REDDI.

[Son of Bovril]

tx for the reply Nightbass I must say I am a big fan of the U5 but it is a bit awkward at times...

[Munjibunga]

I don't see how the 737, which is twice as big as the U5, would be less awkward. I have a U5, and it's fantastic, but I'd trade it for a 737 for the versatility.

[I Forget]

A U5 with a nice 1/2 rack space parametric eq is a sexy beast. Great tone and the flexibilty needed for live use. Haven't used a 737, but I'm with nightbass, it's hard to imagine it improves on the U5, for my ears at least.

[naturalkinds]

Originally Posted by I Forget

Haven't used a 737, but I'm with nightbass, it's hard to imagine it improves on the U5, for my ears at least.

You serious? Maybe if all you're planning to use it for is a DI at a live show. But otherwise the 737 slams the U5 for versatility. It's an industry-standard channel strip.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by naturalkinds

You serious? Maybe if all you're planning to use it for is a DI at a live show. But otherwise the 737 slams the U5 for versatility. It's an industry-standard channel strip.

+1 Never could quite understand using a DI for a preamp with backline. I have no experience with the 737. I was always totally impressed with the U5 as a DI (industry standard for those wanting a VERY wide and clean send to the board.. ala Marcus Miller and Tal Wilkenfeld, who both use bass rigs on stage, and U5's to the board). However, as a preamp, don't really dig it without extra EQ (the presets on the U5 aren't very good).

Many forget that those who use the U5 as a DI (i.e., the context for which it was designed) are feeding that signal into a mixing board which has an infinite amount of EQ, hi and lo pass filtering, etc., to make a bass tone 'work' coming out of a speaker.

[brotherbassj]

I used a U5 for over a year as a "preamp" I paired it with a qsc rmx 2450 and went through an avatar neo 4x10. I used tone preset 2 on the Avalon. I play Warwicks..........to my ear and many sound people, it was "the voice of god". Now granted the 737 has WAY more options in comparison, and maybe I just had the magic blend of equipment? Who knows? Bottom line-both pieces work great, and have usable sounds. IMO though if you can afford either go with the 737........you will be happier!

[KJung]

Originally Posted by brotherbassj

I used a U5 for over a year as a "preamp" I paired it with a qsc rmx 2450 and went through an avatar neo 4x10. I used tone preset 2 on the Avalon. I play Warwicks..........to my ear and many sound people, it was "the voice of god". Now granted the 737 has WAY more options in comparison, and maybe I just had the magic blend of equipment? Who knows? Bottom line-both pieces work great, and have usable sounds. IMO though if you can afford either go with the 737........you will be happier!

+1 Mid voiced bass and mid voiced cab with widely voiced preamp can work nicely. That particular bass and at least the couple of Avalon 410's I've heard can get a bit nasally sounding... nice yin yang/mix match of voicings there.

[I Forget]

Originally Posted by naturalkinds

You serious? Maybe if all you're planning to use it for is a DI at a live show. But otherwise the 737 slams the U5 for versatility. It's an industry-standard channel strip.

Yes. Did you read my first sentence or just the last? FWIW the OP was asking about the basic tone rather than bells & whistles. For me the U5 hits the nail on the head in that department.

The U5 isn't just a DI like say a countryman you know, it is actually a preamp. There's plenty here who talk proudly about how they run their amps flat, ie with no eq. So it would seem a lack of eq isn't a showstopper for everyone. Personally I like to have some eq, which is why I mentioned it.

I can't imagine a U5 or a 737 based rig appealing to anyone sold on micro amps. To each their own.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by I Forget

Yes. Did you read my first sentence or just the last? FWIW the OP was asking about the basic tone rather than bells & whistles. For me the U5 hits the nail on the head in that department.

The U5 isn't just a DI like say a countryman you know, it is actually a preamp. There's plenty here who talk proudly about how they run their amps flat, ie with no eq. So it would seem a lack of eq isn't a showstopper for everyone. Personally I like to have some eq, which is why I mentioned it.

I can't imagine a U5 or a 737 based rig appealing to anyone sold on micro amps. To each their own.

First, remember that most preamps designed for bass when run in the neutral tone position are not necessarily totally flat, and also have hi pass and lo pass filtering built in to optimize performance.

And, as an example, I find the voicing of the Puma series of amps VERY similar to the 'neutral' setting of a U5 through a power amp... extremely wide voiced and pure. However, to keep that tone similar in many extreme acoustic environments, at least some limited EQ seems essential.

Just like most channel strips and DI's have their own voice, there are a wide variety of 'micro amp' voicings, some VERY studio pure and flat and wide (not necessarily a good thing for live performance), and some punchy, tight and nicely voiced to get the most out of the vast majority of backline bass cabinets, which can't use those huge sub frequencies any way.

And, even channel strips with EQ controls can be problematic when used with a power amp as a bass guitar backline regarding appropriate hi pass filtering, etc. Of course, for some, they work great, but there are positives and negatives to any gear choice... plus and minus... just different plus and minus issues!

[naturalkinds]

Originally Posted by I Forget

Yes. Did you read my first sentence or just the last? FWIW the OP was asking about the basic tone rather than bells & whistles. For me the U5 hits the nail on the head in that department.

The U5 isn't just a DI like say a countryman you know, it is actually a preamp. There's plenty here who talk proudly about how they run their amps flat, ie with no eq. So it would seem a lack of eq isn't a showstopper for everyone. Personally I like to have some eq, which is why I mentioned it.

I can't imagine a U5 or a 737 based rig appealing to anyone sold on micro amps. To each their own.

No need to start an internet war. But EQ is only 1/3 of the functionality of that particular channel strip. Add opto-compression into the mix, and that sweet Avalon tube preamp, and the two units are considerably different on what they can offer you tonally. (Whether you could tell live, just using it as a DI into the FOH is another question.)

A compressor and tube preamp not just a 'bells and whistles' sort of difference across the two, but fundamental to the tone. Now, if you buy a 737 and don't use the compressor or EQ, it makes one question why the heck you would spend all that dough on a high-end channel strip!

Thanks for reiterating the specs on the U5, though. We all ought to remember it has a gain knob.

[johnk_10]

all this talk about the 737 without any pictures made me post a pic of my rig that i've been using for the last year or so. IMO (and for me), its just about as good as it gets, and i couldn't be happier with it:

[I Forget]

Originally Posted by KJung

First, remember that most preamps designed for bass when run in the neutral tone position are not necessarily totally flat, and also have hi pass and lo pass filtering built in to optimize performance.

And, as an example, I find the voicing of the Puma series of amps VERY similar to the 'neutral' setting of a U5 through a power amp... extremely wide voiced and pure. However, to keep that tone similar in many extreme acoustic environments, at least some limited EQ seems essential.

Just like most channel strips and DI's have their own voice, there are a wide variety of 'micro amp' voicings, some VERY studio pure and flat and wide (not necessarily a good thing for live performance), and some punchy, tight and nicely voiced to get the most out of the vast majority of backline bass cabinets, which can't use those huge sub frequencies any way.

And, even channel strips with EQ controls can be problematic when used with a power amp as a bass guitar backline regarding appropriate hi pass filtering, etc. Of course, for some, they work great, but there are positives and negatives to any gear choice... plus and minus... just different plus and minus issues!

Ummm.... so what's your point Ken?

[I Forget]

Originally Posted by naturalkinds

No need to start an internet war. But EQ is only 1/3 of the functionality of that particular channel strip. Add opto-compression into the mix, and that sweet Avalon tube preamp, and the two units are considerably different on what they can offer you tonally. (Whether you could tell live, just using it as a DI into the FOH is another question.)

A compressor and tube preamp not just a 'bells and whistles' sort of difference across the two, but fundamental to the tone. Now, if you buy a 737 and don't use the compressor or EQ, it makes one question why the heck you would spend all that dough on a high-end channel strip!

Thanks for reiterating the specs on the U5, though. We all ought to remember it has a gain knob.

Wow!

[KJung]

Originally Posted by I Forget

Ummm.... so what's your point Ken?

I guess my point is that some think these channel strip/power amp combinations are somehow 'better' than all typical bass amps. For some this is true, for most this is not true. And, since so many misunderstand how to use EQ, many people think that you either a) need EQ to sound good or b) never need EQ if you have a pure, neutral, high quality signal. Neither can be farther from the truth.

Similar things happen when discussing speakers... for example the current rage of 15/6 cabs. They sound great... but they have a voice and positives/negative like anything else. For the typical TBer who is not quite as fanatical as some of us, if you just read some of these threads, it is easy to think 'well, this is the top of the heap, and to really get a great bass tone, I should save up and do this'. I'm just trying to provide another point of view, which is of course, IMO and IME. I very much enjoy noodling these topics.

[I Forget]

Originally Posted by KJung

I guess my point is that some think these channel strip/power amp combinations are somehow 'better' than all typical bass amps. For some this is true, for most this is not true. And, since so many misunderstand how to use EQ, many people think that you either a) need EQ to sound good or b) never need EQ if you have a pure, neutral, high quality signal. Neither can be farther from the truth.

Similar things happen when discussing speakers... for example the current rage of 15/6 cabs. They sound great... but they have a voice and positives/negative like anything else. For the typical TBer who is not quite as fanatical as some of us, if you just read some of these threads, it is easy to think 'well, this is the top of the heap, and to really get a great bass tone, I should save up and do this'. I'm just trying to provide another point of view, which is of course, IMO and IME. I very much enjoy noodling these topics.

Well you know how it is Ken 'always' and 'never' are big calls and often wrong (refering to your eq a&b).

The reason to use a U5 is pretty simple, it sounds good. Same reason people chose other (pre)amps, they like the tone. If you really dig the sound then it's not hard to work around the limited feature set (it does have 3 outs, a nice high cut and the speaker/input switch works nicely as a mute). For example, look at the lightweight poweramps coming on the market now, many of them have variable high pass filters. Paired with a half rack parametric eq you get a lot of flexibility and it doesn't weigh a ton either. So you can't put it in your handbag but you can't have everything.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by I Forget

Well you know how it is Ken 'always' and 'never' are big calls and often wrong (refering to your eq a&b).

The reason to use a U5 is pretty simple, it sounds good. Same reason people chose other (pre)amps, they like the tone. If you really dig the sound then it's not hard to work around the limited feature set (it does have 3 outs, a nice high cut and the speaker/input switch works nicely as a mute). For example, look at the lightweight poweramps coming on the market now, many of them have variable high pass filters. Paired with a half rack parametric eq you get a lot of flexibility and it doesn't weigh a ton either. So you can't put it in your handbag but you can't have everything.

+1 Some additional EQ and an amp with a hi pass filter, and that is a VERY nice amplification system.

[Son of Bovril]

Originally Posted by I Forget

...and the speaker/input switch works nicely as a mute...

Eureka! Thanx I Forget I been wondering how to get around that problem!