The Ultimate noob amp question

[D_T]

Been involved in writing music software for years. Finally decided to buy a bass. A man's mid-life crisis knows no bounds.

In order to keep some level of sanity, I set a price max, which I then went over ...

But I did manage to muster enough discipline to NOT buy a bass amp (yet). So I'll likely end up hooking my bass (on a UPS truck somewhere right now) to a mixer (Mackie 1202 or some other small mixer) then into a basic amp and some crappy speakers (with 12" woofer cones).

Now for the ultimate noob series of questions on this subject.

What is the real virtue of a bass amp anyhow? Portability? Dedicated device for the job?

If I'm piping sound into speakers with 12" woofers aren't I already ahead of most $200 amps out there?

I mean aside from EQ and maybe a few other bells and whistles, why do I need an amp? I know I'll get one. But I'm trying to wrap my head around the real reasons why.

Does it really boil down to the "sound" of various boxes / head units? I mean in that case, I'm buying an amp to color the natural sound of my bass in a particular way? Why not just run my bass through a tube amp modeller and be done with it?

I suspect there are likely good reasons to get an amp. If not, they wouldn't sell so many of them and nobody would buy them.

But, as I said, I'm new here so ...

Thanks.

D

[senp5f]

I not a noob at this and I've wondered the same thing. I have a SansAmp Bass Driver DI that always sounds great through the house PA. I was thinking about getting a power amp and speaker cab an then thought, why not just get a PA setup! Then I can use it for vocals on smaller, non-bass gigs.

[AdamR]

Lots of guys gig with nothing more then a bass, a DI box (like the sans amp) and a cord.

If your happy with the sound from your mixing board there's no real reason to buy an amp.

[BurningSkies]

Bass speakers and bass cabinets are very very different than guitar speakers and cabinets, and most other 'crappy' speakers. They have longer 'throw' to the speakers since bass notes cause more excursion. The cabinets work with the speakers in a way that they don't with guitar cabs, together they provide more lows, and more volume in the lows.

[D_T]

Originally Posted by BurningSkies

Bass speakers and bass cabinets are very very different than guitar speakers and cabinets, and most other 'crappy' speakers. They have longer 'throw' to the speakers since bass notes cause more excursion. The cabinets work with the speakers in a way that they don't with guitar cabs, together they provide more lows, and more volume in the lows.

So that's more of an argument for the bass speaker itself. Let's say I augment with a subwoofer.

But I think I'm getting it. The issue is subtle and does boil down to the nuances of the sound you want. I suspect bass amps are also designed to be more efficient at tossing out frequencies that a "normal" home stereo, or pro / PA amp setup isn't.

Regardless, I'd love to hear more from folks about why dedicated amps / head units / cabinets / combo boxes are better than plugging into a PA or even a crappy (bought from craigslist) home stereo system (attached to a mixer of course). EG., let's say you've got 4 crappy Sony speakers w/ 12" woofer cones plugged into a "crappy" Sony 4 channel amp ($100 total). All that can still move quite a bit of air. Add a sub and I've got the ability to produce a pretty wide range w/i the bass frequency range. Not pretty. Not portable. But cheap.

[DBCrocky]

You are assuming that you'll always be using your PA or a PA that is equipped to handle bass.

What if you get a gig at a club that has a PA with crappy 12" wedges, ok for vocals, but not worth a damn at bass. How will you monitor yourself?

[CL400Peavey]

I think what you really want is a modular rack mounted set up. Find a rack mount pre-amp that gives you the tone shaping you like, find a suitable rack mount power amp, dump them all into a rack case with appropriate ventilation and such. Do some research on what kind of sound and power handling you need on Cabinets, and get those. You basically will have taken modular pieces and build a rig.

[CL400Peavey]

Some thing like this.
Pre amp
Tech 21 Sansamp RBI Rackmount Bass Tube Amp Emulator: Shop Bass & Other Musical Instruments | Musician's Friend

power amp

Peavey IPR 1600 Power Amp: Shop Pro Audio & Other Musical Instruments | Musician's Friend

Find two 4 Ohm speakers

Fender Rumble 410 4x10 Bass Speaker Cabinet: Shop Bass & Other Musical Instruments | Musician's Friend

now you have a 1k watt rig that can change tone as much as you want.

[will33]

Stop focusing on the 12" woofer cone thing. That bass can send the 12's in your home stereo speakers flying across the room, it can shred 12" vocal wedges into little bits, it can cook 12" guitar speakers and it can sound beautiful through 12" bass speakers. You get a bass rig to hear yourself on stage, sound like a bass and often times fill smaller rooms with bass sound. For kicks, borrow a friends nice bass rig, then play through some other "crap 12" woofer cone" and see which you enjoy and which makes you go "blah, yuck, that sounds like crap"

That said, some bass rigs are more neutral voiced like a PA speaker, but they have heavy duty woofers much more robust than a typical vocal PA speaker.

Then there's that whole thing about standing in front of a bass rig pumping out soundpressure that's you.

[RickenBoogie]

+1 to Will33. Lots of good reasons to own a bass amp. OP's plan is not recommended.

[Pilgrim]

Yup. A bass amp and speaker designed to reproduce bass with musical instrument quality is not the same thing as a home stereo, even with a subwoofer.

Frankly, a sub will make your bass instrument sound like absolutely muddy crap. A speaker designed to reproduce electric bass is a purpose-built device with heat handling capability, long excursion (travel) and other characteristics which are pretty specific.

A home stereo isn't going to give you quality playback. A small practice amp bought used at a music store or pawn shop will work much better.

[dsanders]

Originally Posted by D_T

Been involved in writing music software for years. Finally decided to buy a bass. A man's mid-life crisis knows no bounds.

In order to keep some level of sanity, I set a price max, which I then went over ...

But I did manage to muster enough discipline to NOT buy a bass amp (yet). So I'll likely end up hooking my bass (on a UPS truck somewhere right now) to a mixer (Mackie 1202 or some other small mixer) then into a basic amp and some crappy speakers (with 12" woofer cones).

Now for the ultimate noob series of questions on this subject.

What is the real virtue of a bass amp anyhow? Portability? Dedicated device for the job?

If I'm piping sound into speakers with 12" woofers aren't I already ahead of most $200 amps out there?

I mean aside from EQ and maybe a few other bells and whistles, why do I need an amp? I know I'll get one. But I'm trying to wrap my head around the real reasons why.

Does it really boil down to the "sound" of various boxes / head units? I mean in that case, I'm buying an amp to color the natural sound of my bass in a particular way? Why not just run my bass through a tube amp modeller and be done with it?

I suspect there are likely good reasons to get an amp. If not, they wouldn't sell so many of them and nobody would buy them.

But, as I said, I'm new here so ...

Thanks.

D

Are you hoping to become a working pro? Then buy a reliable, transportable bass amp.

If you fancied yourself a recording engineer would you do the job without a pc? Or a board?

There are plenty of great, well paying gigs that do not require pa support for a bassist. Those jobs require an amp.

[Alex1984]

Actually, I think I'd disagree. A good PA system with properly designed crossovers and a capable subwoofer to provide low-end support could make a great bass rig. But by that point I think you'd be in even deeper than you would be with a single head/cab set-up.

[christw]

Look at it this way. Bass guitar specific amplifiers are specialized devices engineered to work specifically for and with(in) a bass guitar's frequency range. To ignore amp's importance is like asking a guitarist why not run a Twin Reverb instead of a Marshall Plexi or a Les Paul instead of a Strat because it's all just music. The tonal characteristics imparted by each piece of the signal chain is important to all of us. Plus a lot of us never see PA support. I do sometimes, and I'm a lucky one. I see the PA as an extension of these signal chains that allows for further adjustment, mixing, and amplification of these base tones.

[Sartori]

Originally Posted by D_T

So that's more of an argument for the bass speaker itself. Let's say I augment with a subwoofer.

But I think I'm getting it. The issue is subtle and does boil down to the nuances of the sound you want. I suspect bass amps are also designed to be more efficient at tossing out frequencies that a "normal" home stereo, or pro / PA amp setup isn't.

Regardless, I'd love to hear more from folks about why dedicated amps / head units / cabinets / combo boxes are better than plugging into a PA or even a crappy (bought from craigslist) home stereo system (attached to a mixer of course). EG., let's say you've got 4 crappy Sony speakers w/ 12" woofer cones plugged into a "crappy" Sony 4 channel amp ($100 total). All that can still move quite a bit of air. Add a sub and I've got the ability to produce a pretty wide range w/i the bass frequency range. Not pretty. Not portable. But cheap.

It's not just about sound. It's about not destroying speakers that aren't designed for the electric bass.

[Sartori]

Originally Posted by Alex1984

Actually, I think I'd disagree. A good PA system with properly designed crossovers and a capable subwoofer to provide low-end support could make a great bass rig. But by that point I think you'd be in even deeper than you would be with a single head/cab set-up.

The operative word there is "good." Most PA systems I've seen aren't.

[Alex1984]

Before I got my first rig. I was running my amp through an old Yorkville Elite EX1000, and that thing actually sounded nicer than a lot of cabs out there.

I agree though, a lot of PA gear out there aren't tough enough to handle the bass. I would be worried about pumping through excessive lows out of my PA system without the support a sub.

[D_T]

Originally Posted by will33

Stop focusing on the 12" woofer cone thing. That bass can send the 12's in your home stereo speakers flying across the room, it can shred 12" vocal wedges into little bits, it can cook 12" guitar speakers and it can sound beautiful through 12" bass speakers. You get a bass rig to hear yourself on stage, sound like a bass and often times fill smaller rooms with bass sound. For kicks, borrow a friends nice bass rig, then play through some other "crap 12" woofer cone" and see which you enjoy and which makes you go "blah, yuck, that sounds like crap"

That said, some bass rigs are more neutral voiced like a PA speaker, but they have heavy duty woofers much more robust than a typical vocal PA speaker.

Then there's that whole thing about standing in front of a bass rig pumping out soundpressure that's you.

Thank you. Well said.

I somehow would like to see the cones fly out of some cheap speakers if nothing else than for effect.

What's the minimum price of admission for a bass rig pumping out sound pressure I can feel (without damaging my ears) in my chest?

[basscooker]

if what you're doing is monitoring yourself playing along with songs to learn/write/record at home, and you aren't in a group persuing gigs, don't buy an amp. for any other purpose involving the electric bass guitar, you should have some kind of bass rig (dedicated to only the bass).

[redcloud]

Originally Posted by Alex1984

Actually, I think I'd disagree. A good PA system with properly designed crossovers and a capable subwoofer to provide low-end support could make a great bass rig. But by that point I think you'd be in even deeper than you would be with a single head/cab set-up.

Like those available from Phil Jones Bass, perhaps?