Unported 4x10 with horn or ported 4x10 w/o horn? Sound differences?

[bazguitarman]

In a simple rig consisting of a 4x10" combined with a 1x15" with ample power to push them what would you guys prefer? A 4x10" that is unported/sealed and has a horn or a ported 4x10" without a horn? And why do you prefer either?

Do I even need the horn? Shouldn't a decent 4x10" cab produce enough upper mids to cut through and have presence?

This rig would be part of my house/jam rig covering mostly metal but also some rock and blues. Not a gigging rig. Just total over-kill for home use and fun.

[SBsoundguy]

I like horns in cabinets so i'd pick a 4x10 with a horn.

[bazguitarman]

Originally Posted by SBsoundguy

I like horns in cabinets so i'd pick a 4x10 with a horn.

Thanks for the reply. May I ask why you prefer having the horn? I understand the basic "why" of adding a horn. But I also know it adds quite a bit of potential for extranious noise (hissing).

As I am not a bassist. I'm a guitarist. And just wanting a big rig to screw around with and for jamming with friends I am questioning if I need the horn. Or even if the "hissing" issue is one of those things that only we as musicians even hear. I know if I change one tube in my amp it sounds and feels like a totally different beast.

[SBsoundguy]

Originally Posted by bazguitarman

Thanks for the reply. May I ask why you prefer having the horn? I understand the basic "why" of adding a horn. But I also know it adds quite a bit of potential for extranious noise (hissing).

As I am not a bassist. I'm a guitarist. And just wanting a big rig to screw around with and for jamming with friends I am questioning if I need the horn. Or even if the "hissing" issue is one of those things that only we as musicians even hear. I know if I change one tube in my amp it sounds and feels like a totally different beast.

For me it's like the icing on the cake. Boosted hi-mid plus a little treble gets an excellent gritty+glassy tone on a P-bass.

[JimmyM]

I hate tweeters so I'd get the one without the horn. See how that works? Different people like different stuff. Nobody can pick a rig for you.

[bazguitarman]

Originally Posted by SBsoundguy

For me it's like the icing on the cake. Boosted hi-mid plus a little treble gets an excellent gritty+glassy tone on a P-bass.

Ahh....I see. If I decided to run a fuzz in my rig I imagine I would see the added benefit of the horn. Also it would probably be better running a wah. I had not thought about that. It's not something I have to worry about with my guitar amp as it's pretty much all mids anyway.

Does the difference of ported vs. unported make that much difference in a 4x10"? Considering I will be running a ported 1x15" below it?

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Welcome to TalkBass bazguitarman.

By horn, I suppose You mean piezo tweeter?

Piezo tweeters found on the budget 410's are more trouble than they're worth if You ask me. The better models have compression drivers, and those can be crossed over nearly low enough to be used with just a woofer.

If the price is a concern, I'd go with a ported 410 without a tweeter.

BTW the hiss comes from the amp/signal chain, not from the tweeter.

Regards
Sam

[bazguitarman]

Originally Posted by T-Bird

Hi.

Welcome to TalkBass bazguitarman.

By horn, I suppose You mean piezo tweeter?

Piezo tweeters found on the budget 410's are more trouble than they're worth if You ask me. The better models have compression drivers, and those can be crossed over nearly low enough to be used with just a woofer.

If the price is a concern, I'd go with a ported 410 without a tweeter.

BTW the hiss comes from the amp/signal chain, not from the tweeter.

Regards
Sam

Thanks for the welcome Sam. It feels funny asking questions about musical gear. As a guitarist of over 20 years I'm usually the one giving advice. But after recently doing a 4-string rebuild for a young friend I've discovered I enjoy playing around with a bass enough to add a decent rig of my own. Trouble is, I have no practical experience with bass equipment.

I have discovered this though. Look for the right rig. Not the "best" or most expensive. And the easiest way to do that is find the guys that know what they are talking about and ask plenty of questions before buying anything.

Eric

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by bazguitarman

Ahh....I see. If I decided to run a fuzz in my rig I imagine I would see the added benefit of the horn.

You would also see the added drawback of having a horn. Using a fuzz is the quickest and most efficient way to blow a tweeter.

[SBsoundguy]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

You would also see the added drawback of having a horn. Using a fuzz is the quickest and most efficient way to blow a tweeter.

True dat.

I guitar cab or a 6" driver would be a better option.

[wcriley]

If you plan to use fuzz, I'd avoid a tweeter. Not just because of the potential for blowing it, but also because it turns highly distorted sound into ice-pick-in-your-ear sound. Ever wonder why skinny-string guitar amps don't have tweeters?

I use overdrive/distortion/fuzz and wah. My preference is a 6" mid that reaches up to around 5K. So...+1 to what SBsoundguy said.

[murphy]

or you can just turn the horn down or off

[wcriley]

Then why have it?

[CL400Peavey]

Dont bother with the 115, it will probably blow as it is miss matched with the 410. If you want something big like that find a used acoustic 810 for cheap and let your buddies pound on that.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by bazguitarman

Ahh....I see. If I decided to run a fuzz in my rig I imagine I would see the added benefit of the horn.

Fuzz and tweeters are a bad mix, often resulting in the death of the latter.

Does the difference of ported vs. unported make that much difference in a 4x10"?

Yes. Play through some and find out for yourself.

Considering I will be running a ported 1x15" below it?

Bad idea. A 410/115 is a total mismatch, a topic that gets covered here at least twice a week.

[bazguitarman]

Is the 410/115 mismatch because of power ratings or the differences in frequency responce?

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by bazguitarman

Is the 410/115 mismatch because of power ratings or the differences in frequency responce?

Do a search. You'll find at least a thousand threads on this subject.

[christw]

One of many threads linked from the FAQ at the top of this forum: Mixing Speaker Cabs

You've got a lot of myths to dispel on your road to bass playing. Glad I did early.

Some things that you'll want to look at:
-the potential for phasing issues with mixing speaker sizes, cabs, makes, etc
-the potential for performance issues when mixing different cabs (such as a 410/115) and what better matches there may be

I'd also note that ported vs sealed or the presence of an HF driver really give us very little information as to the character of either cabinet, it's performance, voicing, or capabilities besides those one or two construction details. A make and model would be a heck of a lot more useful in helping you choose cabs or at least in ascertaining what kind of tones appeal to you.

[bazguitarman]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

Do a search. You'll find at least a thousand threads on this subject.

Bill, I actually just found the sticky containing a thread specifically about this subject.

If I understand correctly, and taking into account that everyone will "hear" things differently. The mismatch may or may not be detrimental, depending in large on each driver's coverage over a given freq range, the different drivers output efficiency and cabinet design.

So if the 10" drivers and the 15" have a similar character in their freq responce and similar output efficiency they would or might make for a decent match in a full range system. But the only real way to tell would be through trial and error?

The much easier way would be to match two identical cabinets.

No wonder we are all gear whores. lol

I always assumed that speaker sizes were mixed in bass rigs because the different sized speakers had different tonal characteristics. Like 10" drivers would produce a sharper initial attack at any given freq due to the lesser surface area of the driver itself. And 15's would have a softer and rounder attack.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by bazguitarman

I always assumed that speaker sizes were mixed in bass rigs because the different sized speakers had different tonal characteristics. Like 10" drivers would produce a sharper initial attack at any given freq due to the lesser surface area of the driver itself. And 15's would have a softer and rounder attack.

That's a common misconception. The only factor influenced by driver size alone is the angle of dispersion. Every other factor is influenced by over a dozen variables.