Upgrading from Avatar...Thinking Bergantino...Thoughts Or Suggestions?

zippydog · #1 10-02-2010, 04:05 PM

First, yes I've used the search function and found it quite helpful. I still have questions so here we go:

Current Rig:
I currently have an Avatar 210 Neo cab. I use it at home for practice and the occasional small gig (I use a house rig at church). I power the Avatar with a Markbass LMII, which I like a great deal. Bass is a new Sadowsky RV5-PJ, which is pure heaven. A couple of pedals in-between.

Why change?
I've never really liked the brittle high end on the Avatar (tweeter turned almost off) and while the cab is punchy, I'd like a bit more fullness, warmth and clarity with my punch. The Avatar can handle a B string, but I have a belief that I can do better. To be clear, the Avatar is a great cabinet and a killer value both in and above its price range (part of the reason for this post - I don't want to dismiss it without being sure I'll get more of what I want sonically).

What I'm after:
Punch, clarity and warmth with a smooth (not scooped or exaggerated) delivery in the mids and clear highs that blend into the overall tone and aren't brittle. I play finger style but not slap, so speed and articulation matter. I'd like to keep my LM II for an amp - I like it. I'm not interested in building a stack, just want one cab that can get it done and done well at home and in small-ish venues. That said, I'd like to stay with a cab about the same size as the Avatar -or smaller- for hauling purposes.

Questions:
Am I fishing in the right pond by considering Bergantino to get me what I'm after? I'm still lost in the different lines and models, but based on my homework so far, I am drawn to either the HS-210 or possily an HT112 or AE112.

I also wonder a little about AccuGroove Tri112 or even a Tri110.

Other thoughts on what Berg cabinet(s) to check out? Other brands?

Thanks all!

gjbassist · #2 10-02-2010, 04:18 PM

Have you thought of just adding another cabinet to the Avatar? A 1x15 under your 2x10 would give you a fuller sound with more bottom. I have a Carvin 2x10, which by itself sounds good. However when I pair it with a 1x15 the two together kill!

Jim C · #3 10-02-2010, 04:24 PM

Use a Berg HT-322 (no longer made) with an LMII
Not into super bright bass and turn the horn down although it doesn not sound harsh; sounds like God with LMII or SVT
Only downside is weight compared to a TL606
Can't ever remember reading a bad review about a Berg; more about which cab for which amp; HT series works for me

zippydog · #4 10-02-2010, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gjbassist

Have you thought of just adding another cabinet to the Avatar? A 1x15 under your 2x10 would give you a fuller sound with more bottom. I have a Carvin 2x10, which by itself sounds good. However when I pair it with a 1x15 the two together kill!

Yes, I have thought of adding a 2nd cab, and have ruled it out. I know adding the 15" or even the new Avatar 112 would move more air, but that's not what I'm after here.

craig.p · #5 10-03-2010, 10:09 AM

I read your requirements and the first cab that came to mind was the Acme B-2 cab.

Notwithstanding the fact that you already own a bass head, if you really want to do something novel, and if the Avatar is 8 ohms, get yourself a Carvin MB15 micro amp, plop it on top of the Avatar, connect the cab to the Carvin's external speaker jack, and be prepared to smile like an idiot.

I discussed this sort of configuration in the Carvin Micro Amp thread if you want to chase that down for the details. The short of it is that the Carvin micro will add the punch and immediacy and speed and midrange bark you're looking for. There's more to it than that but I go into it a bit deeper in that other thread.

One of my standard configurations for stage work is an MB15 on top of an Avatar B212. It kills for short-range work, and even sounds great at solo-practice volumes. In other words, it doesn't need to be cranked to give your tone character.

Hope this helps.

SlingBass4 · #6 10-03-2010, 10:27 AM

*I* find 12's to be the best of both worlds. One still gets quick response but more depth and projection. That said...speaker types, box design, all 'round quality components, etc., play a part in the final analysis. I'm ol' school, and neos are da debil

Good fortune with your due diligence...

gillento · #7 10-03-2010, 10:29 AM

I'd add the Aguilar db112 to the possible candidates.
I play mine with my Sadowsky JJ & PJ and a MarkBass SA450.

Those 3 brands just seem to fit your tone goals!

DavePlaysBass · #8 10-03-2010, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zippydog

Current Rig:
I currently have an Avatar 210 Neo cab. I use it at home for practice and the occasional small gig (I use a house rig at church). I power the Avatar with a Markbass LMII, which I like a great deal. Bass is a new Sadowsky RV5-PJ, which is pure heaven. A couple of pedals in-between.

Why change?
I've never really liked the brittle high end on the Avatar (tweeter turned almost off) and while the cab is punchy, I'd like a bit more fullness, warmth and clarity with my punch. The Avatar can handle a B string, but I have a belief that I can do better. To be clear, the Avatar is a great cabinet and a killer value both in and above its price range (part of the reason for this post - I don't want to dismiss it without being sure I'll get more of what I want sonically).

Thanks all!

That's a really good description of the Avatar B210 Neo IME. I have owned the caibnet for about 5 years. My main bass is a Sadowsky RV5.

My experience is that I do not like the B210 Neo as a stand alone. It did well with a Aggie GS112 under it and my EBS HD350 head.

So I got to a point where I was looking for a stand alone cab that sounds good. The B210 Neo just sounded harsh on the top end and not super full on the low end. The Aggie GS112 gets lost with the scoop thing going on (although it sounds great when no else is playing). I did the speaker swap to a 2512 in the Aggie but I can't say that really solved the issue. I found more mids but seamed to lose some fullness on the bottom.

After picking up a MB500 and really liking it, I went pseudo old school and picked up a GK Neo 115-III as a 40 lb. stand alone cab. So far I like it. I bought it on a whim partially because the price and weight were right for me. I have not had a chance to really crank it but it definitely has what I feel I was missing with the Aggie and the Avatar as stand alones. It does take a step in the old school low mid 15" sound but does have a nice tweeter and good clarity with defined high mids / low treble. I would not call the 115 modern but it sits well in the basement playing loud with CDs. I usually go for an emphasis on the neck pickup with nickels rounds in a finger style / groove supportive role but like to throw in the fills / arpeggios and have them heard. Hopefully I can get a jam session lined up here in the near future. My regular church deal is in-ears which I am slowly getting used to (that's another topic).

fish slapper · #9 10-03-2010, 02:01 PM

I have had great success with a Schroeder 1210R under a MB F-1 as a single cab solution for full aggressive tone. Might be a bit much for your church sitch. I use it for weekend classic rock bar gigs.

jeff7bass · #10 10-03-2010, 03:15 PM

Carvin's BRX 10.2 NEO is an outstanding choice and at 349.00, it won't break the bank. It's light, deep, smooth and is capable of BIG sound as a standalone cab. Since it's 4 ohms, the Markbass head will be pumping it's full wattage into it.

http://www.carvinguitars.com/product...uct=BRX10.2NEO

B String · #11 10-03-2010, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zippydog

What I'm after:
Punch, clarity and warmth with a smooth (not scooped or exaggerated) delivery in the mids and clear highs that blend into the overall tone and aren't brittle. I play finger style but not slap, so speed and articulation matter. I'd like to keep my LM II for an amp - I like it. I'm not interested in building a stack, just want one cab that can get it done and done well at home and in small-ish venues. That said, I'd like to stay with a cab about the same size as the Avatar -or smaller- for hauling purposes.

Other thoughts on what Berg cabinet(s) to check out? Other brands?

Thanks all!

I've been a 2x10 fan for a long time. I've used Epifani, SWR, Eden, and Bergantino. (among others)
I very much like the Berg AE210. Its' efficient, sounds great at low volume or pushed. The transition from the speakers to the horn is almost undetectable. Its a VERY small, light weight box. My only gripe, although a big one, is the Black paint covering. Cheapest and worst covering for a box I've ever seen. Having said that, I still own and use mine all the time. If I need a little more lows, I turn up the bass knob on my amp. The AE210 will take everything the LMII has. Tone wise and power wise.

I just did a few outside gigs. I used an 1x12 box under the AE210. It just killed for such a small light rig. Oh... I was using a Shuttle 9.0.

If you need more a bigger more supportive low end, you might like the HS210 more. Its also a good amount heavier

Fuzzbass · #12 10-05-2010, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zippydog

What I'm after:
Punch, clarity and warmth with a smooth (not scooped or exaggerated) delivery in the mids and clear highs that blend into the overall tone and aren't brittle. I play finger style but not slap, so speed and articulation matter. I'd like to keep my LM II for an amp - I like it. I'm not interested in building a stack, just want one cab that can get it done and done well at home and in small-ish venues. That said, I'd like to stay with a cab about the same size as the Avatar -or smaller- for hauling purposes.

My first thought was the HS210.... I own a pair, and love 'em. For even flatter response I would recommend an HT112ER/HT112EX stack... it'll move a bit more air than a 2x10, but will cost ya more.

The AE cabs get great reviews, but many say that they have a bump in the high mids. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, of course... in fact some love the upper mid presence.

Selta · #13 10-05-2010, 04:31 PM

Have you considered the tweeter swap?
http://acapella.harmony-central.com/....php?t=1073643

rptrsn2 · #14 10-05-2010, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zippydog

I've never really liked the brittle high end on the Avatar (tweeter turned almost off) and while the cab is punchy, I'd like a bit more fullness, warmth and clarity with my punch. The Avatar can handle a B string, but I have a belief that I can do better.!

not sure a new cabs your answer. i run mine with a gk and its full,punchy, warm and clear. nothing brittle at all about it. it handles my 5 string at loud volumes no prob.

zippydog · #15 10-07-2010, 07:49 PM

OK, so here's how this one ends.

Over the weekend I bought a Bergentino HS210 cab from a fellow TB'er. The HS210 delivered yesterday and I had my first go at it tonight.

This cab sounds fantastic. Best description I can come up with is "its honest". Smooth and warm, it delivers whatever my Sadowsky 5PJ bass throws at it. Got up to sick db levels at home (more than I'll need) and sounded great & effortless. Yes, I got it to break up on my B string with gain and master volumes past 12:00, but that probably had more to do with my Markbass LM II than the cab itself. Quick and punchy with smooth but crisp highs (not sharp, brittle or disconnected)...drivers and tweeter seemed amazingly connected (must be the crossover).

Anyway, I really like this cab. Glad I made the switch...better than I deserve.

NOW...suggestions on heads other than the LM II? What amp makes the most of this wonderful sounding speaker?!