Upgrading speakers in Eden 212 XLT

[StingrayTBold]

I'm looking to upgrade speakers in my Eden 212 XLT cab. I generally play through an Ampeg 500 Portaflex head and I'm specifically looking for Neo's to cut down on the weight.

I've heard tons of good things about the Eminence Deltalite 2512 and Kappalite 3012LF's.

What's the real difference between these two models (besides the price), and what do you guys recommend?

-StB

[CL400Peavey]

I recommend you do not replace the drivers in your cab. If it doesnt suit your needs, sell it and find something that does. There is no savings in replacing drivers in a cab that wasnt designed for them.

What are your weight/volume/budget/tonal requirements?

[Tractorr]

The only thing I can put out there is that you might be lacking a bit of high mids with 3012LF. There is a reason those Greenboy cabs have a mid driver.

[CL400Peavey]

Originally Posted by Tractorr

The only thing I can put out there is that you might be lacking a bit of high mids with 3012LF. There is a reason those Greenboy cabs have a mid driver.

+1 the 3012LF's are not meant to be a stand alone driver. Above 800-1000hz or so they are no good. A crossed over mid driver can take care of the 800 - 6000hz range with ease though.

[StingrayTBold]

Originally Posted by CL400Peavey

I recommend you do not replace the drivers in your cab. If it doesnt suit your needs, sell it and find something that does. There is no savings in replacing drivers in a cab that wasnt designed for them.

What are your weight/volume/budget/tonal requirements?

The problem is I'm not really happy with the "stock" speakers that came with my 2x12 Eden cab, and I thought I could try upgrading them. I thought changing to Neo's would be nice to help take off the weight of the cab. And the Delta's and Kappa's caught my eye because they got really good reviews, I can get them both for less than $200 a piece. But you're saying that it's probably better to just sell the cab rather than trying to replace speakers?

In the past, I've swapped out various speakers in guitar combos with out an issue. Do bass cabinets just lack the same flexibility because of lower frequencies and generally more power handling? Or is it just because the speakers are in a separate cabinet enclosure? Pardon my ignorance on the subject.

[CL400Peavey]

Originally Posted by StingrayTBold

The problem is I'm not really happy with the "stock" speakers that came with my 2x12 Eden cab, and I thought I could try upgrading them. I thought changing to Neo's would be nice to help take off the weight of the cab. And the Delta's and Kappa's caught my eye because they got really good reviews, I can get them both for less than $200 a piece. But you're saying that it's probably better to just sell the cab rather than trying to replace speakers?

In the past, I've swapped out various speakers in guitar combos with out an issue. Do bass cabinets just lack the same flexibility because of lower frequencies and generally more power handling? Or is it just because the speakers are in a separate cabinet enclosure? Pardon my ignorance on the subject.

With guitar cabs, there is no engineering. They just slap drivers into the cab and go with it. For bass, especially in ported cabs, the cabs should be tuned to the drivers. This means the internal volume and porting are specific (or near enough) for the drivers being used.

If you dont like the tone of your cab, find a different one that sounds better.

[BassmanPaul]

Read through this lost carefully: AMPS FAQ!! Info on OHMS, Allsize RIGS-OverUnderPowerCabs DIY TechTalk-Links

Getting a cabinet to work at its best is science not just dropping some random driver(s) into an existing box. You should follow the wise advice in post #2.

[MysticMichael]

Originally Posted by CL400Peavey

With guitar cabs, there is no engineering. They just slap drivers into the cab and go with it. For bass, especially in ported cabs, the cabs should be tuned to the drivers. This means the internal volume and porting are specific (or near enough) for the drivers being used.

If you dont like the tone of your cab, find a different one that sounds better.

Exactamundo...

Once you venture into the lower frequencies, a whole new world begins to open up: a world of physics!

The bottom line is that you can't extrapolate too much from the realm of guitar amplification. Bass may seem similar. But to do it properly requires a entirely new level of technical know-how.

MM

[Bassmec]

Do you play in a reggae band?. if so as long as the cabinet porting can be altered to suit the Thiel small params of the 3012lf you can probably get away with it. You might want to think about adding a crossover and midrange speaker for any other music type though.

[BogeyBass]

Sorry to bust your guys mystical magical knowledge....

But most 12" bass speakers are looking for 1.8 to 2.5 cubic feet
and almost all of them have a resonant frequency around 35 to 45 hz

Eden is well known to have healthy deep cabinets and its most likely ported around 50 to 55hz, probably could find at least 10 to 15 drivers that would just drop right in. Give me a break the cab is 18.5 inches deep. More love than most "super 12's " get.

Its not very hard to out perform a EC1260F (the speaker that comes in that cabinet) its a ceramic cast frame speaker but the magnet is a little lacking so I doubt the driver goes much over the 3 to 4mm of xmax.

An Eminence speaker in the 6mm range or A Faital speaker in the 7mm range would very much outperform the factory eden ceramic. And work just fine.
In fact the Faitals are well worth the money over a Delta 2512 or S2012 which is still only in the 4mm range which will sound ok, but wont do much than ceramics it comes with. Other than the weight savings.

Bet you 20 bucks Eden built their cab to give each driver about 2 cubic and its tuned to 50/55hz

I could make you another list ranging from 200 to 300$ price range.

[ThisBass]

additional suggestion:
BEYMA 12MW/ND
http://profesional.beyma.com/pdf/12MW%20NdE.pdf

list price @ US Speakers:
$269.95