Use a powered P.A. sub to extend a bass rig ?

[DrumsAndBass]

I'm new to TB.
What do you think about using a powered P.A. sub to extend the lower end of a bass rig ? I use a 5 string. I'm using an Ashley BP-41 preamp that has a very good built in crossover. My rig is two 2x10 cabinets. So my plan is to connect the powered sub and adjust the sub volume to suit. Of course, there is wide range of powered subs in terms of price etc. But I think that most any powered sub of reasonable quality would easily handle this application. I play Reggae. I'm sure this idea has been done before. Can you offer any tips on what I can expect ?

[fokof]

If you want "real" lows , it's the only way to go.
There is no Bass specific cabs capable of delivering the lows a PA sub would do.


I personaly use one on bigger gigs.
I use this one
I had a 18" active before that one , the lows were sublime and better than my actual but it was too big and too heavy.
That RCF is a good compromise between sound/power/weight/size.

The tip I could give is if you use one "live" , make sure it doesn't interfere with the FOH sound.
You can have a very good sound on stage but make thing sound like crap in front if too loud.
The louder the backline is , the harder is the FOH job.
In that case , it depends on your priorities , your self enjoyment or your public.
Use it with caution

[blastjv]

I saw a band, Dragon Green, play and both the bassist and guitarist used ISP subs for this purpose. Their sound was very big down low for sure...

-JV

[bucephylus]

This approach makes so much sense that I'm a bit surprised it doesn't get discussed more here at TB.

I would think that the APPROPRIATE use of a sub could go a long way to addressing some modular cab needs/issues. Weight/power etc should be interesting issues to find out about.

I've got some Schroeder cabs that are a little light at the lower end, and might really benefit from this approach.

Am I missing something or some reason this is not a good approach?

[blastjv]

I think that these systems are usually pretty damn expensive (I think the ISPs are like $1500 or more). It's really no different than a bi-amped system, and I think those largely fell out of favor over the last 15 or 20 years as speakers have gotten better...as I understand it...

-JV

[fleabee]

Bag end makes a powered 18"-great sound

[b15fliptop]

I remember reading that the bassist for Sublime uses a Boogie with an 8x10, and runs a line out to a Meyer Sound 2x18 powered sub. I would think you'd have no shortage of lows with that setup!

[Chris K]

I'm glad the soundguys bring in my PA subs when needed... For mid size venues I just bi-amp, putting my Markbass 151 combo up front underneath one the PA speakers with extra cab on the other side (and keeping my PJB Briefcase right next to me as personal monitor). If I should keep the Markbass behind me, I'd drown out everything else on stage.

[Calaverasgrande]

I tried this with a mackie powered sub. I never really liked what it did for the tone. On some notes it was great, but most of the time it was too boomy. Of course the Mesa bass 400 has a very hot output and that mackie had a limited range of input adjust.

[bucephylus]

First, I understand that the lower freqs go all over the place and can cause unacceptable problems with bleed into FOH. That said, I've also had times, like benefits, where I show up with my 38 pound Schroeder and the sound guy tells me there is no line for the bass in FOH; the rig will have to carry the club. I mean it happens.

Also, don't subs have volume knobs? I mean they aren't digital on/off. I would think there might be a appropriate level for a sub to fill in a little depending on FOH/stage etc just to provide a little reinforcement.

The Meyer mm10AC looks about right; but, yeah these things are astronomically expensive, like $2k. Seems there ought to be some other options.

[rpsands]

fEarfuls perform down to 45hz as well as pretty much any PA sub (better than many, even some of the super expensive ones). That's as low as you really need to go excepting tuning below low A or so (I use mine with low A and it's plenty of output with a little boost down there).

[walterw]

yorkville makes lovely small powered subs. the LS720 might be just the ticket.

+1 to these things being dangerous weapons in the wrong hands, but for reggae they might be just the ticket.

[DWBass]

Without PA support, I can see desiring this. My bands use a PA so a sub is already in the mix. No need for me to have one as part of my rig. My sound is massive enough.

[bucephylus]

Originally Posted by rpsands

fEarfuls perform down to 45hz as well as pretty much any PA sub (better than many, even some of the super expensive ones). That's as low as you really need to go excepting tuning below low A or so (I use mine with low A and it's plenty of output with a little boost down there).

But, RP, I think we're talking about reinforcing other rigs here. Sure, the fEarful designs are well engineered. If that's what you're using you wouldn't be asking this question. Otherwise, a reasonably powered 24 pound sub with a volume control might be worth considering for some situations.

[jeff7bass]

Carvins 18" powered sub (700w RMS) is currently on sale for 549.00. Includes level (volume) control, Hi Pass filter, Crossover Freq. control, etc... Comes in colors too.

http://www.carvinguitars.com/product...oduct=LS1801NA

[rpsands]

Originally Posted by bucephylus

But, RP, I think we're talking about reinforcing other rigs here. Sure, the fEarful designs are well engineered. If that's what you're using you wouldn't be asking this question. Otherwise, a reasonably powered 24 pound sub with a volume control might be worth considering for some situations.

What good quality 24lb sub are you seeing?

IMHO, adding a fEarful 12/sub to an existing 2x10 or 15 sub to an existing 4x10 would be a good fit, and probably both lighter and louder than most PA powered subs. They can reinforce 700hz or so on down, rather than 150hz on down, and won't sacrifice as much SPL to get <40hz extension that's unnecessary in a stage rig.

* You could get the fEarful powered for +250 bucks or so by adding a bridged Crown XLS Drivecore 1000 and an airhead, I would imagine. Probably a lot more flexible.

Conventional PA powered subs would be better off out front...you'll still hear the low end, it's omnidirectional, and it'll help the rest of your band too.

[bucephylus]

Originally Posted by rpsands

What good quality 24lb sub are you seeing?

IMHO, adding a fEarful 12/sub to an existing 2x10 or 15 sub to an existing 4x10 would be a good fit, and probably both lighter and louder than most PA powered subs. They can reinforce 700hz or so on down, rather than 150hz on down, and won't sacrifice as much SPL to get <40hz extension that's unnecessary in a stage rig.

* You could get the fEarful powered for +250 bucks or so by adding a bridged Crown XLS Drivecore 1000 and an airhead, I would imagine. Probably a lot more flexible.

Conventional PA powered subs would be better off out front...you'll still hear the low end, it's omnidirectional, and it'll help the rest of your band too.

Thanks RP; interesting suggestions.

Here's the Meyer unit (though probably a bit too expensive).
http://www.meyersound.com/pdf/produc...s/mm-10_ds.pdf

I also see KEF has some interesting small units, though not as robust as the Meyer unit.

[rpsands]

2300 bucks

[bucephylus]

Originally Posted by rpsands

2300 bucks

Not very practical; but at least the idea is there.

[Sundogue]

Get a fEARful design and you'll have it all in one cab, including the sub. Cheaper in the long run and mucho easier to haul.

All things fEARful.