Using a crossover: 100hz? That's so high!

[ArturoOsito]

SO I'm gonna get a Carvin BX1500 and use it to power a 2x10 and a 1x18. The BX1500 has a crossover which will be great for the "10s and sub" setup.

The thing is, the crossover only goes down to 100hz...which seems kinda pointless? The open G-string is at 98hz, so what...the crossover will send everything below the open G-string to the sub? Why even have the 10s then? I mean, I stick to the low-tones 98% of the time except for the occasional fill or breakdown. So the 10s will be mostly silent?

Unless there are a certain amount of "high frequencies" with any note due to the nature of string vibration? I mean, I don't really like having a lot of "string articulation" noise...I like the sound to be subby and dubby (with the exception of more "rock" type gigs).

So what the hell??

[FunkMetalBass]

When you hear a string, you are predominately hearing the second and third harmonics (on the 40Hz E-string, you are hearing mostly 80 and 160).

[ale29]

You're not playing a synth.
A note played on bass guitar has a fundamental and many overtones/harmonics, most of your signal sits in the >100hz region.

[mikezimmerman]

The fundamental frequency only makes up a small portion of the string's sound. Much of what you hear is actually higher frequency overtones. If it weren't, then the EQ and tone controls wouldn't make any difference.

Mike

[ArturoOsito]

Ah, so it is just "string theory." Hehe. Well, that's a bit of a bummer...because I'm going for a "synthyer" type vibe for more electronic dance style sounds and hip-hop style thump. Plus I'll be occasionally plugging my microkorg in for synth bass.

[ale29]

You are still not going to hear the fundamental only, 100hz seems a legit frequency for crossing over a sub to me.

[Bassmec]

Originally Posted by ArturoOsito

SO I'm gonna get a Carvin BX1500 and use it to power a 2x10 and a 1x18. The BX1500 has a crossover which will be great for the "10s and sub" setup.

The thing is, the crossover only goes down to 100hz...which seems kinda pointless? The open G-string is at 98hz, so what...the crossover will send everything below the open G-string to the sub? Why even have the 10s then? I mean, I stick to the low-tones 98% of the time except for the occasional fill or breakdown. So the 10s will be mostly silent?

Unless there are a certain amount of "high frequencies" with any note due to the nature of string vibration? I mean, I don't really like having a lot of "string articulation" noise...I like the sound to be subby and dubby (with the exception of more "rock" type gigs).

So what the hell??

That would seem to make sense but you have ignored a lot of these things called harmonics, you see strings don't produce a simple sine wave like an oscillator/frequency generator.
So even the lowest string will have some higher frequency components than 100hz.

[ArturoOsito]

What if I bump the bass knob on my active preamp? And roll off some treble??

[mikezimmerman]

Originally Posted by ArturoOsito

Ah, so it is just "string theory." Hehe. Well, that's a bit of a bummer...because I'm going for a "synthyer" type vibe for more electronic dance style sounds and hip-hop style thump. Plus I'll be occasionally plugging my microkorg in for synth bass.

Then why not just send everything to the 18, and skip the crossover and 2x10?

[ale29]

Try boosting your low-mids instead, and see how the Low B becomes way punchier.
Those frequencies are much higher than Low B fundamental, though.

[ArturoOsito]

Originally Posted by mikezimmerman

Then why not just send everything to the 18, and skip the crossover and 2x10?

Well I suppose I could...but I don't want it to just be mud. I'll experiment before I buy when I visit the Carvin store in a couple weeks.

Originally Posted by ale29

Try boosting your low-mids instead, and see how the Low B becomes way punchier.
Those frequencies are much higher than Low B fundamental, though.

You know, I'm really not looking for "punchy." I'm looking for thumpy. Room shaking, dance style bump. Like that car that drives down the street and all you can hear is bass

[bassybill]

Here's a clip of a bass:

http://www.billygreen.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/DigIn.mp3

Here's the same clip with everything above 100Hz rolled off pretty steeply:

http://www.billygreen.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/rolloff.mp3

That's why you need your 10s.

[arai]

Originally Posted by ArturoOsito

You know, I'm really not looking for "punchy." I'm looking for thumpy. Room shaking, dance style bump. Like that car that drives down the street and all you can hear is bass

You would be surprised how high the lows are on the subs in those cars you hear down the street.

[dukeorock]

If any argument could be made, it's that 100hz is too low of a crossover point, not too high...sayin'

[arai]

Originally Posted by dukeorock

If any argument could be made, it's that 100hz is too low of a crossover point, not too high...sayin'

Agreed

[ArturoOsito]

Originally Posted by bassybill

Here's a clip of a bass:

http://www.billygreen.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/DigIn.mp3

Here's the same clip with everything above 100Hz rolled off pretty steeply:

http://www.billygreen.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/rolloff.mp3

That's why you need your 10s.

Super interesting...BUT that's not how I play bass at all. I like to rumble low notes as opposed to bouncing all over the place, you know? Still a very interesting set of clips though, and I appreciate it.

Originally Posted by arai

You would be surprised how high the lows are on the subs in those cars you hear down the street.

What do you mean? As far as how cranked the "lows" are? Or as in how how the frequencies are in what I'm hearing?

Originally Posted by dukeorock

If any argument could be made, it's that 100hz is too low of a crossover point, not too high...sayin'

Indeed...although I don't really play bass like a "guitar." I'm really trying to go for a more "sub-bass" dub, dance, modern rumble sound...

[bassybill]

Originally Posted by dukeorock

If any argument could be made, it's that 100hz is too low of a crossover point, not too high...sayin'

Exactly. There's not a whole lot going on below 100 Hz on most bass tracks you hear recorded in the studio (although you will certainly miss it if it isn't there). But what most ordinary listeners call "bass" or "lows" is much higher than they think.

This is why I always smile when I hear people saying they want a cab that's flat down to about 30Hz because that's the fundamental of their low B or whatever. Fundamentals are a tiny, tiny part of what you hear from any instrument, except maybe a triangle.

[dukeorock]

Originally Posted by ArturoOsito

Indeed...although I don't really play bass like a "guitar." I'm really trying to go for a more "sub-bass" dub, dance, modern rumble sound...

Understood

[bassybill]

Originally Posted by ArturoOsito

Super interesting...BUT that's not how I play bass at all.

It's not how I play most of the time, either. Not when I want paying, anyway.

But that's not really the point. What I'm saying is that you can't make judgements about what frequencies you want to go to each driver either side of a crossover based on fundamentals of notes. Even on your super dub reggae low B or whatever, most of the note you hear is waaaaaaaay above 100Hz.

[ArturoOsito]

Originally Posted by dukeorock

Understood

SO does the same then hold true? On a deadmau5 record or even a Rihanna record, are the fundamental frequencies still a small part of what you hear? Playing modern electronic dance and hip-hop is still new to me, so I'm trying to learn errythang I can...