Using a seperate preamp and power amp

[Noose]

I am confused and need someone to explain this to me.

I want to use one of my bands extra power amps to power my cab and an external preamp. I already have the power amp, but now I need to find a inexpensive preamp. I have NO clue about preamps. What to buy, where to buy it, what are the minimum features that I need to use it in a live setting, etc.

I know this is a fairly vague question, I just have no idea even where to start or what I need. My budget is not much either. 100 to 150 tops. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[4Mal]

Tonal goals ? What/who do you hear as having a good basic tone. By basic, I mean before effects are added... What is your cab setup ? Is the cab setup capable of hitting your preferences ?

Far as 'cheap' preamps go...
1. Used. The GFS here is your friend...
A. Yamaha PB1
B. Art Tube Channel
C. BBE 383
D. Peavey

2. New
Cheap mic pre (Art, Presonus, Bellari, etc) plus a floor stomp style graphic EQ

3. Not for the faint of heart ...
Used good rackable parametric EQ. Tough to figure out but get it right and this can be clear tone nirvana...

Out of these, the used Art Tube Channel, with something like the Sans Amp BDDI will. Cove a lot of ground. You would start with the TC, then add the BDDI down the road as budget permits.

[dincz]

Originally Posted by 4Mal

Cheap mic pre (Art, Presonus, Bellari, etc)

Not ideal with a passive bass. The relatively low input impedance of a mic preamp will suck the highs from the pickups.

something like the Sans Amp BDDI

Something almost exactly like the Sansamp BDDI would be Behringer's BDI21 for a lot less money.

[MuzikMan]

I think the minimum desirable features on a preamp are:
Input Gain,
EQ,
Output Gain.

I will second the Yamaha PB-1 suggestion. I would also like to suggest the newly released Eden WTDI. It has all of the necessary features of a preamp in pedal form for a very good price.

[Stefan Okon]

Question is: what is inexpensive?

i use a BBE Bmax with my power amp.
in addition i use the Tech 21 VT Bass deluxe that gives me a different range of sounds!

this setup does everything for me!
the vt bass can also be used as standalone pre. in my opinion both are inexpensive.

[craig.p]

Regarding impedance and passive basses, any mic preamp or channel strip can be used as long as it has a high-impedance input and the impedance of that input isn't abnormally low. The type of music you play might warrant extra focus on impedance -- for example, if you go for a slap tone that's very sharp/crystalline, you might want to load that instrument with nothing less than a megohm or two. However, keep in mind that the vast majority of passive instruments are already pre-loaded impedance-wise with volume and tone controls, and so, in a sense, there's already some damage that's been done to the signal before it ever leaves the instrument's phone jack. In light of that fact, if there's a worry about impedance loading, you could make the argument that you'd get more mileage out of bypassing the instrument's controls than you would by sweating a preamp's Hi-Z input impedance (within reason of course). Just thought I'd hop in and clarify that small point.

[Bardley]

You could always go with a VT Bass pedal straight into the power amp. Highly recommended!

It meets your budget, too.

[Noose]

Lots of good suggestions. My main concern right now is that I don't get something that doesn't boost my signal enough for my power amp to use it. Does that make sense? Do all preamp/direct boxes give an adequate boost to the signal coming from your bass regardless of your power amp?

[JTE]

$100 to $150 puts you into the market for a used Peavey TB Raxx, maybe the Max, or possibly a Pro-Bass 1000. All are good, but I really really like my TB Raxx. I had one of those, then traded up to the Pro-Bass 1000, then went to Eden amps. I sold my Pro-Bass 1000 and then found another TB Raxx for $100.

The TB Raxx has input level, output level, three band active EQ, three band passive EQ, and has a pair of 12AX7 tubes. The passive EQ is similar to how a Fender Bassman pre works, and the active gives you more precise control over the sound. The problems with the Peavey are that it only has unbalanced outputs. That's fine for running into your power amp, but if you go DI you'll need another direct box.

The Pro-Bass 1000 was all solid state, had shelving bass and treble controls with a graphic EQ in the middle (I think it was 10 band, but I don't recall). I really liked the center frequencies of the graphic on this pre, and they were different from the centers on the Max pre-amp. The Pro-Bass 1000 also had a cross-over (because all the hip guys had 'em but that feature is pretty pointless in the real world), a balanced DI with ground lift and pre/post selection, a nice clean sound and was utterly reliable. I only sold it because I had the Eden which meant I didn't need to lug around my CS-800 any more, and I liked the sound of the TB Raxx better, even if it was harder to tweak to different rooms.

John

[Noose]

How about a Seymore Duncan Paranormal Bass Preamp/DI? Anyone ever tried one of these? Could it be used straight into a power amp?

[Calaverasgrande]

I would also liek to chime in with a couple used preamp choices.
There was a furman preamp with like 4 bands of parametric EQ that was pretty nice. It isnt gonna give you that grindy bass tone that is in vogue these days but it was quite warm.
The Intersound (Pearce) IVP1 was a pretty good sounding pre. I think they also made a 2 channel version later on.
A used Presonus Eureka would be nice as well as, it adds a compressor to the mix.

[MuzikMan]

Originally Posted by Noose

Lots of good suggestions. My main concern right now is that I don't get something that doesn't boost my signal enough for my power amp to use it. Does that make sense? Do all preamp/direct boxes give an adequate boost to the signal coming from your bass regardless of your power amp?

Good question to ask. Not all preamps can drive all power amps to full power. I think those days are winding down though. You will probably have to narrow the field a little before getting into these specifics.

[Noose]

Originally Posted by Bardley

You could always go with a VT Bass pedal straight into the power amp. Highly recommended!

It meets your budget, too.

Hmm, might have just Found one of these within my budget.
Just so I'm understanding this, I can go from my bass, to the VT pedal, to a peavey 1200 power amp, to my cab. Is this correct? I feel really dumb asking this stuff

[Denial]

I have a Joemeek VC3Q (older model, made in the UK) that I've used with a QSC PLX2402 stereo power amp. One of my favoritie combinations. The meek has a great compressor and EQ. Played it with a Lakland 55-02 and couldn't have been happier.

The Meek can be found used on Ebay for around $150 when they show up. I have no experience with the new Meeks.

[wave rider]

Originally Posted by Noose

Hmm, might have just Found one of these within my budget.
Just so I'm understanding this, I can go from my bass, to the VT pedal, to a peavey 1200 power amp, to my cab. Is this correct? I feel really dumb asking this stuff

Get the exact model name of your 1200, you can probably get the manual here:
http://www.peavey.com/support/search...s/archived.cfm

That might tell what input level the 1200 is looking for. I'll wager the VT will work...

=wr=

[Growly Lytes]

Exactly.....the input sensitivity issue isnt maybe that big for some but it depends on what preamp you go for.
I myself was worried about using the Sansamp RBI/RPM to run a QSC PLX model.The PLX poweramps are @ 1.2 or 1.4v i cant remember exactly but the Sansamp is rated 1.0v.
TB assured me that there wouldnt be any problems.
The poweramp i use now has a "sensitivity switch" to match the Preamp Sensitivity or atleast get it close as possible.
So try to get a Preamp that has high output.
Plus whatever bass you use will matter a great deal also.Passive basses might struggle a little.

[Noose]

Originally Posted by wave rider

Get the exact model name of your 1200, you can probably get the manual here:
http://www.peavey.com/support/search...s/archived.cfm

That might tell what input level the 1200 is looking for. I'll wager the VT will work...

=wr=

Found the manual for my power amp. On the specs, what tells you the input level requirements? Would that be input sensitivity?

[Growly Lytes]

Just look for "input sensitivity" in the owners manaul of the poweramp.When you choose a Preamp try to get the preamp to have a sensitivity matching the poweramp or higher if possible.Some techs can adjust the sensitivity of some preamps.
Sansamps RBI , RPM , VT & most of Tech21 stuff have a signal strong enough for poweramps imo.
In the manual it should say somewhere "Input Senisitivity" & then have something like 1.4volts rms or 1.0volts rms.So let us know how you go.

[Noose]

Originally Posted by Growly Lytes

Just look for "input sensitivity" in the owners manaul of the poweramp.When you choose a Preamp try to get the preamp to have a sensitivity matching the poweramp or higher if possible.Some techs can adjust the sensitivity of some preamps.
Sansamps RBI , RPM , VT & most of Tech21 stuff have a signal strong enough for poweramps imo.
In the manual it should say somewhere "Input Senisitivity" & then have something like 1.4volts rms or 1.0volts rms.So let us know how you go.

Ok, my amp has a knob that adjusts the input sensitivity down to 1.0v Rms. So I guess as long as i get a preamp that has an output level higher than that sensitivity level I'm good. Thanks for the info. Starting to make more sense.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by dincz

Not ideal with a passive bass. The relatively low input impedance of a mic preamp will suck the highs from the pickups.

well that's an issue if you're playing for dogs but it generally sucks so few highs out of a passive bass that it's pretty mich unnoticeable to all but dogs.

having said that, i'd still rather use something oriented toward bass than a mic preamp, unless of course it's a high end $2000+ mic preamp.