Using a WWU w/Radial JDI

CDweller · #1 07-17-2010, 09:19 PM

Can anyone tell me the best way to use a Radial JDI DI box with a Walter Woods Ultra? I've never used a pa (for the bass), and now am forced to send my bass through the foh on occasion.

It seems that if you plug the bass straight into the Radial, then the bass's unadorned signal itself gets sent to the mixing board by way of the DI's xlr output, unprocessed by any effects or tone control from the amp.

Does the bass get plugged into the Radial, and it's 1/4" output go into the amp? Or do I use the DI out from the amp into the input of the Radial?

I understand that the Radial's xlr output goes to the mixer in all cases.

Also, I use a compressor and a chorus- should I plug the bass directly into these effects, and take the processed output to the DI or amp, or should I run them through the amp's effects loop? It seems that running the bass straight into the DI precludes any effects going to the foh unless the bass is plugged in upstream of the pedals, and that output is sent to the DI.

Thank you, tb gurus.

brendanbassist · #2 07-17-2010, 09:22 PM

You can just run your DI out from your amp into the mixer.

CDweller · #3 07-17-2010, 10:00 PM

The amp instructions recommend running the amp's di to a passive di box.

JimmyM · #4 07-18-2010, 12:41 AM

not familiar with the woods xlr out, but being cheap, i'd probably just use that instead of a separate, although the radial is quite kickass in its own right. and yes, plug the bass into the effects and then di. effects loops in amps suck total ass for effects imho, even line level effects that are supposed to be run in a loop.

bongomania · #5 07-18-2010, 01:08 AM

It's supposed to go:
bass --> pedals --> DI 1/4" input
DI 1/4" output --> your amp
DI XLR output --> the PA

You're right that there is therefore no tone shaping from the amp going to the PA. But dig it-- there is nothing the WW can add to your tone that would benefit you in the PA. The house EQ has to be different from your onstage EQ, it would sound terrible out in the room otherwise. Best person to decide on EQ for the PA? Not you or anyone onstage, but the soundman behind the desk who knows the room. And the WW doesn't otherwise shape your tone in any way that would be meaningful through the PA speakers. Since the pedals are between the bass and the DI, their effect goes to both the PA and your amp.

Don't use the fx loop with pedals.

JimmyM · #6 07-18-2010, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

It's supposed to go:
bass --> pedals --> DI 1/4" input
DI 1/4" output --> your amp
DI XLR output --> the PA

You're right that there is therefore no tone shaping from the amp going to the PA. But dig it-- there is nothing the WW can add to your tone that would benefit you in the PA. The house EQ has to be different from your onstage EQ, it would sound terrible out in the room otherwise.

i don't agree with that. that's not always the case. plus most soundmen can eq your sound in the house even if it's eq'ed for your amp. yeah, if you do something drastic they can struggle sometimes, but generally it's not as bad as it would seem.

however, i will agree that the woods isn't an svt its xlr out really doesn't have anything to offer over an outboard di. but some could also say the opposite is true, too.

Munjibunga · #7 07-18-2010, 01:36 AM

I'm going with bongo on this.

JimmyM · #8 07-18-2010, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

I'm going with bongo on this.

how dare you! i hate you! i hate all of you!!!

well you can go with bongo if you want, but i'm right.

Munjibunga · #9 07-18-2010, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

how dare you! i hate you! i hate all of you!!!

well you can go with bongo if you want, but i'm right.

I guess this means we're not going steady.

Stereo Joe · #10 07-18-2010, 02:02 AM

The Walter Woods amps usually have a 1/4" unbalanced line out, so they need a DI box in between the amp and the mixing console (Walter Woods himself recommends a passive DI like the JDI).

CDweller, you just run a patch cord from the Woods' direct out into the DI box. Using the switch on the amp, you can select between pre and post signals depending on wether you want your amp's EQ sent to the mixer.

Stereo Joe · #11 07-18-2010, 02:06 AM

Another thing I'll add for the folks saying the Woods' line out 'really doesn't have anything to offer over an outboard di':

I used the Woods at a recording session along with 2 external DI's (Radial J48 and a Sansamp). All three recorded tracks sounded very different and distinct. Depending on someon's personal preferences for tone, the Woods's line out could definitely offer a big advantage over an outboard DI.

JimmyM · #12 07-18-2010, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stereo Joe

The Walter Woods amps usually have a 1/4" unbalanced line out, so they need a DI box in between the amp and the mixing console (Walter Woods himself recommends a passive DI like the JDI).

you're kidding! no xlr out? what bass amps these days don't have one? even the svt has one now!

JimmyM · #13 07-18-2010, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

I guess this means we're not going steady.

hey, i never mix business and pleasure...we can still go steady!

Mike Carr · #14 07-18-2010, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

you're kidding! no xlr out? what bass amps these days don't have one? even the svt has one now!

As I understand it, Walter had concerns about phantom power from mixing boards frying his amps. He used to offer an xlr out on a few models a few years ago but stopped after some of the amps got fried. I don't know all the technical reasons behind all of this, but I do remember this was the reason he gave for discontinuing the xlr out feature on his amps. My early 80's vintage M-1008 has a 1/4 inch line out, which works fine for me, either into a direct box or even the 1/4 inch input of most mixing boards. My personal experiance has show that the WW EQ can be quite useful for double bass, even thru a house PA.

CDweller · #15 07-18-2010, 06:54 AM

Guys, much thanks for weighing in on this. Jimmy and Mungi- oh never mind (*edits snarky remark*). It looks like I'll plug the bass directly into the stomp boxes, and send the signal at the end of that signal chain directly to the di. This signal then gets split by the di, sending a balanced low z signal to the foh, and a signal to the amp.

The di from the amp is almost a misnomer, because if you want noise-free operation, the amp's di signal MUST go to a passive di, as per the amp's instructions (when all else fails, read the instructions, right?). This, from the instructions:

"DIRECT OUT JACK: One 1/4" phone jack is provided. The signal, a mono mix of both channels, may be connected to a recording console, house P.A. mixer or another amplifier. To insure 60 HZ hum/noise-free operation, a passive "direct box" must be used. If the "direct box" is active (requires batteries) it must contain an isolation transformer, for noise-free operation."

I can also send the amp's di signal out pre or post amp eq. As I won't be using the amp's effects loop, this will just be the amp's tone shaping that occurs pre-Post Gain knob. Any thoughts on sending the signal out pre or post eq to the Radial di box?

CDweller · #16 07-18-2010, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

you're kidding! no xlr out? what bass amps these days don't have one? even the svt has one now!

This is true. The Woods only provides an unbalanced 1/4" line out, which you have to send to a di if you want to insure noise-free operation. You can see one of the ways that the Woods maintains its light weight and small form factor is by omitting stuff that is generally standard on larger amps. So now you're forced to buy and carry extra stuff to a gig...

I've got to figure out a way of attaching helium balloons to an SVT to help cart it around. Just played through one at a rehearsal studio the other day...sounded so good!