Vertical 212 Design & Possible Build

[Doll]

So I have been considering building my own cab. I have designed a few on my computer and have settled on one I am fairly happy with. Its a vertical 212 with a vertical front port recessed handles on the top and bottom for the cab. I have it designed to be made of 1/2 plywood with internal bracing. I designed the bracing to be 4 pieces that wrap entirely three sides of the cab. Any concerns you might see with the design, things I could address before committing?

Here is a 3d rendering



Now I am considering the build because I have always wanted to do a build and because I now have a Avatar neo 212 and it doesn't fit in my car, I have looked around for different cabs and configurations but I am very happy with my 212 besides this one issue and this seems like the most economical route as I am a poor student. Would it make any sense to use the components of my avatar 212 for this build? I would just move the speakers, tweeter and jacks over to the new cab. I calculate a loss of 20% of the volume in cabs. Would this greatly effect the sound? do I risk damaging anything? Should I leave well enough alone or have some fun with this?

[Jeff Scott]

Can you make the cab a bit taller to allow for the tweeter being in a vertical line with the 12s, or does this make it taller than would fit in your car? Doing so will also get you back some of the internal volume you are losing with your current design.

[will33]

Structurally it looks good, a little like a cross between a fEARful and a Barefaced box. I'd add a front to back brace, 3/4" dowel or something from between the 12 cutouts to the corresponding spot on the back wall for extra rigidity.

A word about the Avatar neo 12's. I have a pair. Don't know if they're to your tonal liking or not but to me, they give up way too much uppermid/high response in exchange for taking a little bit more down low, not even that much compared to stock emi's. Consider keeping the same basic design but replacing the tweet with a mid driver that averages 95-98 above 1khz. More or less depending on your tastes. That would require working up a true 2-way crossover and may add $100-$130 to the build but worth it. Could do it as is an add-on that later if needed. If you want the high tweeter air, you could still use the same tweeter and pass it up around 5-6k. If you don't have the dough for that at the moment, fine. Just adjust the build design to make them easy add-on's later.

That's my experience with the avatar DLII 2512's vs. Stock spec ones, your ears may vary.

Other than that, assuming you've worked out the cab volume/tuning thing to be what it was in your cube box, it's a good design. Looks like you've put some thought/planning into it. You'll also notice an improvement from increased dispersion as well. Basically you can be a ways off to the side of the rig without losing definition and sound better in more of the room it's playing as well.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by Doll

I designed the bracing to be 4 pieces that wrap entirely three sides of the cab. Any concerns you might see with the design, things I could address before committing?

That's the least effective bracing sheme, giving minimal results, while wasting a lot of weight in the cabinet corners where bracing isn't required. This is the most effective:


And dump the tweeter, going from a woofer to a tweeter doesn't work well. Use a six inch midrange.

I calculate a loss of 20% of the volume in cabs.

I assume that you have the T/S specs for the drivers and have software modeled them in the proposed cab to confirm the tuning of the port and to see the results of downsizing the cab. If not, that's square one.

[Doll]

Originally Posted by Jeff Scott

Can you make the cab a bit taller to allow for the tweeter being in a vertical line with the 12s.

Yea, I think I could still do that and it would fit I will have to measure my car to see what my limits are but I would'nt mind having the cab a bit taller anyways.

Originally Posted by will33

Structurally it looks good, a little like a cross between a fEARful and a Barefaced box. I'd add a front to back brace, 3/4" dowel or something from between the 12 cutouts to the corresponding spot on the back wall for extra rigidity.

Just adjust the build design to make them easy add-on's later.

That's my experience with the avatar DLII 2512's vs. Stock spec ones, your ears may vary.

Yea I took elements of cabs I liked and styled after them, and closely looked at the fearful designs while working on this.

I like the thought of designing to make it easy for add-ons down the road, I am definately going to look into that.

Thanks for sharing the experience with the avatar 12's

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

That's the least effective bracing sheme, giving minimal results, while wasting a lot of weight in the cabinet corners where bracing isn't required.

And dump the tweeter, going from a woofer to a tweeter doesn't work well. Use a six inch midrange.

I assume that you have the T/S specs for the drivers and have software modeled them in the proposed cab to confirm the tuning of the port and to see the results of downsizing the cab. If not, that's square one.

I now remember seeing that in another thread, seems to be a popular recommendation, I like my gear to be light so I think I will go that route, the pieces I had designed were also an inconvenient cut with lots of waste if not planned properly. What diameter of dowels would you suggest?

What would be involved in wiring up a 6 inch driver in place of the tweeter? any specific ones you might recommend, I am assuming the ones recommended for fearful builds would be good, I will have to look that up.

I tried to get that program, but I couldn't find it compatible for mac's so I just tried to keep it as similar to the avatar specs as I could. Perhaps with making it taller to add the midrange I will get nearly exact.

[J-wall]

Bill,

How do you get the dowels to stay put? Countersink a hole for them?

Thanks.

Josh

[dog1]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

That's the least effective bracing sheme, giving minimal results, while wasting a lot of weight in the cabinet corners where bracing isn't required. This is the most effective:


And dump the tweeter, going from a woofer to a tweeter doesn't work well. Use a six inch midrange.

I assume that you have the T/S specs for the drivers and have software modeled them in the proposed cab to confirm the tuning of the port and to see the results of downsizing the cab. If not, that's square one.

+1 on the tweeter. I have not personally found a real use for a tweeter. A component that may to to 20K Hz is no real need for bass guitar.

[Jeff Scott]

Originally Posted by Doll

What would be involved in wiring up a 6 inch driver in place of the tweeter? any specific ones you might recommend, I am assuming the ones recommended for fearful builds would be good, I will have to look that up.

Here are two very popular mid/high drivers:

Eighteen Sound Speakers - Eighteen Sound 6ND410 - Eighteen Sound 6ND410 6.5" midrange speaker has a lightweight neodymium magnet and is 102dB SPL. Eighteen Sound 6ND410 6.5" midrange speakers are available here. 18 Sound speaker components.

Faital Pro 10FH500 10" Speakers - Faital Pro 10FH500 mid-bass, bass guitar speaker and subwoofer 10" speaker that has a lightweight neodymium magnet - Faital Pro 10FH500 1,200 watt 10" efficiency of 96dB SPL woofer for all high power bass application

I had a 2-12 cabinet with the Faital in the past and currently have two different cabinets (a 2-8, and a 2-12) with the 18Sound driver; both are excellent choices depending on how the crossover is designed to work in conjunction with the 12" drivers you have.

[will33]

I don't think WinISD runs on Mac's but there must be some box design program that does. Even though your box is a different shape, as long as it has the same internal volume and port tuning as your avatar, for all practical purposes, it'll act the same in the lows.

During the build you can cut little recesses in the panels for the dowels to fit. Use Pl Premium glue on the whole thing. 3/4" dowels are plenty strong. Could maybe get away with 1/2". IME, spine bracing like that, if done right, makes the panels stiff enough, the crossbracing is even stronger.

Find a box design program for Mac. Should be a free download one somewhere. You'll need it to get the port right. Some specs on the Avatar 12's in post #19 of this thread. deltalite version I vs. II

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by Doll

I tried to get that program, but I couldn't find it compatible for mac's so I just tried to keep it as similar to the avatar specs as I could. Perhaps with making it taller to add the midrange I will get nearly exact.

Speaker cabs are no place to roll the dice in hopes that they'll work well.
Frankly you shouldn't dick around with this course. Find a tested and tried design, build it using the recommended drivers, sell the Avatar.

How do you get the dowels to stay put? Countersink a hole for them?

You can do so as shallow as 1/16 inch deep, just enough to hold them in place until the glue sets. Glue is a necessity.

[J-wall]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

You can do so as shallow as 1/16 inch deep, just enough to hold them in place until the glue sets. Glue is a necessity.

Thanks, Bill!

[BassmanPaul]

Originally Posted by Doll

I tried to get that program, but I couldn't find it compatible for mac's

You can run WinISD in a Safari window right from the web site. Alternatively you could run the program using Virtual PC or Parallels. If you have an Intel Mac, like my MacBook Pro, you can run Windows natively.

Edit: Isn't it a pity that Windows machines can't run Mac OS.

[Jeff Scott]

Originally Posted by Doll

I tried to get that program, but I couldn't find it compatible for mac's

Search here and see if you can find anything:

Pure Mac: Software for Macintosh