Vertical 3x12s - Who Makes Them?

agreatheight · #1 12-10-2010, 04:21 PM

So a 2x12 doesn't seem like enough, and a 4x12 seems like overkill. So I am thinking about a vertical 3x12. I have a query out to Don at LDS. Anyone else able to do this for me? Does anyone make a production 3x12?

Thanks!

jnewmark · #2 12-10-2010, 04:52 PM

LDS is probably your best bet, or a 212 and 112 from the same manufacturer, like Bergantino, GenzBenz, etc. I don't know of any amp company that makes a 312.

greenboy · #3 12-10-2010, 04:55 PM

Cripes, it's not how many drivers - it's how much displacement is available. A fEarful 1212/6 can roust most - if not all! - 412 cabs around, if you feed it the watts. And it'll sound fuller while doing it and pack smaller and lighter.

AwkwardLoudness · #4 12-10-2010, 05:24 PM

I bet Emperor would custom build a 3x12. I've already seen an Emperor 6x12 for what it's worth.

SactoBass · #5 12-10-2010, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenboy

Cripes, it's not how many drivers - it's how much displacement is available. A fEarful 1212/6 can roust most - if not all! - 412 cabs around, if you feed it the watts. And it'll sound fuller while doing it and pack smaller and lighter.

THIS!

koobie · #6 12-10-2010, 06:30 PM

I know it's not bass, but Jerry Garcia used to play guitar through a 3x12 cab if memory serves me correctly. There's something to be said for getting drivers closer to ear level, my ankles and knees don't hear so well.

Mr. Foxen · #7 12-10-2010, 06:33 PM

But that 6" driver does the same effect better, by having better dispersion, and being at the top.

greenboy · #8 12-10-2010, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koobie

I know it's not bass, but Jerry Garcia used to play guitar through a 3x12 cab if memory serves me correctly. There's something to be said for getting drivers closer to ear level, my ankles and knees don't hear so well.

What Mr Foxen said. Anyway, that is a 36" tall enclosure. Want more height: put it on top of a fEarful 12sub which matches it, or a matching 15sub even.

Mr. Foxen · #9 12-10-2010, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenboy

Want more height: put it on top of a fEarful 12sub which matches it, or a matching 15sub even.

Or a beer crate. Good excuse to put a crate of beer on your technical rider.

BassmanPaul · #10 12-10-2010, 10:28 PM

The biggest problem with 3x?? cabinets is that you come out with an odd total impedance. The only way to beat this is with specially made drivers. With standard drivers you'll end up with 5.33Ω or 2.67Ω depending on using 16Ω or 8Ω drivers. Listen to Greenboy's post for a better way to go.

koobie · #11 12-11-2010, 12:12 AM

One of the holy grails in the audiophile world is a loudspeaker that is comprised of a single full-range driver - the crossover is seen as a necessary evil.

Hypothetically speaking, is there anything inherently wrong with a 5.33 ohm rated cab as compared to a 4 ohm rated cab? Say you've got an amp capable of delivering 500 watts into 4 ohms. Now let's say the same amp will produce 425 watts into a 5.33 ohm load. To compare apples with apples, let's say that each cab has a 100 dB sensitivity rating and a maximum wattage rating of 500 watts. What will be the maximum SPL of each cab? Unless I've gotten my figures wrong (quite possible), from three feet away the 4 ohm cab will produce 127.8 dB while the 5.33 ohm cab will put out 127.1 dB, a trivial difference.

I've heard some fantastic two-way bass cabs; the benefit of having a dedicated mid/high driver is not lost on me. But these cabs sound different than cabs using drivers that are all operating full-range. Hard as it may be for some to believe, there are players who might actually prefer the tone of simpler bass speaker cab designs.

mntngrown · #12 12-11-2010, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenboy

Cripes, it's not how many drivers - it's how much displacement is available. A fEarful 1212/6 can roust most - if not all! - 412 cabs around, if you feed it the watts. And it'll sound fuller while doing it and pack smaller and lighter.

Love all that Greenboy has done to open up our cab options, and consider him a generous HERO. No doubt that a 2x12/6
eminence 3012lf loaded cab would pound the piss out of any production 3/12 should one exist, but the OP is lookin for a production cab? And jnewmarks suggestion of LDS has met recently with Greenboy's disdain. This however is the void where many of us flounder. (please no fish pics). DIY is often not an option for many. By the way GB I notice under your sig one of the top 100 albums of all time IMHO. Would FRP build his own fEarful cabs? Maybe? LDS has never claimed to do fEarfuls, but people ask Don to. Then from what Greenboy seems to imply, people ask him to solve LDS nEarful tech issues. People should not bother Greenboy with LDS design issues. I tried to tell people on the LDS appreciation thread that there is no LDS fEarful and got hammered.
Point is if you want a vertical 3x12 and don't want to buy a table saw and a bunch a clamps and a router and...
Call Don at LDS. Just so you know GB, when I called Don at LDS and said I wanted a 1515/66 fEarful he flat out said he did not build exactly to fEarful specs and if that is what I want I could build it myself. You are right that he has seen a big increase in orders based on your plans, but he has not solicited them. In my case he discouraged asking for a specific fEarful cab. It is very nice that you help people post their LDS cabs on the fEarful wiki. Not really fEarful builds are they. I think the guy that built them would agree.

Kwesi · #13 12-11-2010, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenboy

Cripes, it's not how many drivers - it's how much displacement is available. A fEarful 1212/6 can roust most - if not all! - 412 cabs around, if you feed it the watts. And it'll sound fuller while doing it and pack smaller and lighter.

Excuse my bluntness by why do so many people seem to think that anyone posting a thread in need of a new cab has the ability, money and intrest to build their own? Building a cab from the ground up in effort to find ones perfect tone my be fun for a few but I don't think that the majority want to deal with that.

To the OP: I'm 90% sure that you can find a stock cab that sounds fantastic to you. Why not a 410? I'm sure there are plenty that could fit your needs easily.

greenboy · #14 12-11-2010, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwesi

Excuse my bluntness by why do so many people seem to think that anyone posting a thread in need of a new cab has the ability, money and intrest to build their own?

Excuse my bluntness, but who are these "so many people", and why would I care about them anyway, or feel particularly responsible for them? I'm not posting as "so many people", but only as myself.

And excuse my bluntness but why should I assume that a few people won't consider building their own cabs, especially when the results are capable of doing a superior job? So far it's satisfied a number of people. I sure don't owe it to anybody like you to stop suggesting something just because it might not be a universally embraced thing. In fact: I don't even think it's foolish of me to suggest my solution if only one out of ten might end up considering building an enclosure.

And I'm sure people are able to consider whether making their own cab is practical without your intervention - again, pardon my bluntness ; }

greenboy · #15 12-11-2010, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koobie

One of the holy grails in the audiophile world is a loudspeaker that is comprised of a single full-range driver - the crossover is seen as a necessary evil.

Among a small group of people, yes that is true. Among other groups of people, it's rather laughed at, or not such a holy grail at all, considered impractical, considered unrealistic given the results that are generally to be had. In fact, there are a huge diversity of approaches that are considered the holy grail in the "audiophile" world, some of them ridiculously expensive and just as much based on mystical booshwah as they are on hearing - which by the way has so little to do with us, here, anyway, living in Basscabland rather than Audiophilia Fields.

Holy grails are such a fickle entity, not being so universal, nor always capable of facing the clear light of day.

Quote:

I've heard some fantastic two-way bass cabs; the benefit of having a dedicated mid/high driver is not lost on me. But these cabs sound different than cabs using drivers that are all operating full-range. Hard as it may be for some to believe, there are players who might actually prefer the tone of simpler bass speaker cab designs.

And there are many who would say that their are many many different ways that one-way cabs sound, and no single sound that they all share. The same is true of two-way or three-way cabs. Better then to approach the cabs each as individual entities, rather than lumping them into categories.

Though frankly I do feel that what I've designed is capable of satisfying a broad swath of user profiles from traditional to modern ANYWAY, especially if their EQ skillz are better than rudimentary.

It's too bad some feel offended if I advance my suggestions and expect these designs to get considered fairly and without prejudice, judged on that merit rather than just shrugged off or dismissed as "sounding different". Everything "sounds different" to someone.

greenboy · #16 12-11-2010, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mntngrown

It is very nice that you help people post their LDS cabs on the fEarful wiki.

A few people were fortunate enough to have their cabs built for them somewhat close to the spec they actually asked for. And they participate in fEarful threads to help others. I'm pretty sure they have understood enough to see and know what differences are merely cosmetic, and which are essentially important on an acoustical front.

greenboy · #17 12-11-2010, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassmanPaul

The biggest problem with 3x?? cabinets is that you come out with an odd total impedance. The only way to beat this is with specially made drivers. With standard drivers you'll end up with 5.33Ω or 2.67Ω depending on using 16Ω or 8Ω drivers.

Well, there's nothing implicitly wrong with 5.33Ω or 2.67Ω loads. Like any other load, one just has to be aware of what they have in relation to their amplifier's capabilities.

In fact, it's vastly preferable to end up with one of these loads using drivers that are available via retail channels, rather than BUYING a cab that's used series/parallel driver wring schemes or different impedance drivers which then does not balance incoming signal evenly between the drivers. Some commercial builders have done that, and acoustically and in terms of durability its a poor choice.

Far better that a commercial cab be 5.33 ohms Nominal load, and perhaps even advertised as a 4-ohm load. This has no severe consequences, the two being oh so close.

**jlepre** · #18 12-11-2010, 05:24 AM

Geeesh...don't ever disagree with Greenboy...

greenboy · #19 12-11-2010, 05:31 AM

; }

Well, jeez, I make a suggestion and they are jumping out of the woodworks. It's tough being singular ; }

Anyway, BassmanPaul wasn't considered a hostile REMF ; }

Jim C · #20 12-11-2010, 07:11 AM

The OP asked about who could build him a 3x12.
He knows about the grennboy project and doesn't appear to be interested.
I personaly respect the fearful deigns and appreciate the engineering efforts, however there are players who don't want a full range cabinet and actually prefer some of the techincaly inferior designs that are available.
Lately, your posts to try and convince others to use your work have become completely self-serving and narcissistic.
I think you're technical work is very much appreciated but the verbal attacks and snide remarks undermine your credibility and contributions.
BTW, there are number of us that feel this way; maybe try a touch of humility in the future.