Vintage West Bass Cab-What Speakers????

cimchazz1 · #1 04-26-2011, 08:44 PM

I have a vintage West (Laboratories) twin 15 cabinet I used to use with an old SVT head I got rid of long ago. I think this is the same cab Grank Gunk Railroad used to stack up on stage. From my measurements, I think there is 6 cu ft of space, and there are two round ports that are probably 4" in dia (and 2 more that are blocked off). The (2) 8ohm 15" Vega EM158 speakers I've had in this cab for years have finally lost their tinsel wires, so I am going to put something else in the cabs until I get them fixed. I'm guessing this will be hard to answer, but does anyone know what speakers I should use in a cab this size if I am driving with a GK 1001RB2 or a Mark Bass2? I have been lookin at Eminence. Anyone know what this cab had in it originally (I know I'm really asking alot now)? I use an old EB3 and an old H8 bass and like the vintage deep bass sound you get with the 15" speakers for classic rock and blues.
Thanks.

JimmyM · #2 04-26-2011, 08:51 PM

eminence delta 15a or Beta 15. those were designed to work well in old ampeg cabs (at least i think they were), so they should work well with west cabs, too.

cimchazz1 · #3 04-26-2011, 09:09 PM

Thanks, I had been considring the Kappa LFA 15, but they are a little more expensive. I thought the heavier magnets and higher power ratings might be better, but I'm basing that on what used to be true years ago, I don't know about some of this new stuff now. I'll check them out, thanks. Maybe they'll sound better than the old Vegas?

JimmyM · #4 04-26-2011, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cimchazz1

Thanks, I had been considring the Kappa LFA 15, but thy are a little more expensive, but I thought the heavier magnets and higher power ratings might be better, but I'm basing that on what used to be true years ago, I don't know about some of this new stuff now. I'll check them out, thanks. Maybe they'll sound better than the old Vegas?

nah, doubtful

they're good speakers but they're not like old classic speakers.

anyway, more important than power handling is displacement. one of the big speaker guys on here told me that you get more displacement out of the betas even though the deltas handle more power on paper. the power handling spec tells you how much it takes to fry the voice coil, but not how loud you can get before farting out on you. and with neodymium magnets being used in some speakers, magnet size is pretty much immaterial, so you can't even go by magnet size anymore. you pretty much have to judge every single speaker out there on a case by case basis and can't rely on diameter and magnet size to tell you what's going on with them.

billfitzmaurice · #5 04-27-2011, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cimchazz1

Anyone know what this cab had in it originally
Thanks.

What it had originally is moot. What you want to load it with now depends on the exact cab dimensions and porting and how much power you're pushing it with. And you should have all four ports operational, a single 4" per 15 inch driver is too small and will cause chuffing.

Quote:

eminence delta 15a or Beta 15. those were designed to work well in old ampeg cabs (at least i think they were), so they should work well with west cabs, too

I only recommend them with low power amps, where their midbass bump is a benefit. The Delta is displacement limited to less than 75 watts, so you don't want to use it when you have more than that on tap.

cimchazz1 · #6 05-01-2011, 04:54 PM

I will be pushing them with a GK 1001RB2, both of my Vega EM158 15s suffered broken tinsel wires at around the same time in that cab, was wondering if my Backline 600 destroyed them from clipping, or if they just corrode and go bad after 40 yrs., or if maybe it's from only having 2 porting holes open instead of 4? I know they used to move alot when I played.
I'm on the road and can't measure the cab right now, but just to give you an idea of size, it is around 6 cu ft, same cab Mel Schacher from Grand Funk used (but he had alot more). Probably similar to other twin 15 cabs from the '60s. Anyway, that is what I need to find speakers for. What is chuffing? I was considering maybe the Eminence Kappa LFA 15s?. I will probably get my Vegas reconed, too, if I can find a local reputable shop (metro Detroit area), and keep them as back-ups. Thanks.

billfitzmaurice · #7 05-01-2011, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cimchazz1

I'm on the road and can't measure the cab right now, but just to give you an idea of size, it is around 6 cu ft.

I can't recommend anything without exact inside dimensions.

Quote:

was wondering if my Backline 600 destroyed them from clipping, or if they just corrode and go bad after 40 yrs.

Is your car 40 years old? How about your lawnmower? Refrigerator? Toaster? Does Jefferson blink from the light when you take a nickel out of your pocket?

cimchazz1 · #8 05-02-2011, 05:00 PM

Well, my Chevelle, both bass guitars, 7 mini bikes, snow blower, lawn mower, stereo system, and wife are all over 40 years old, and they all seem to be working fine still??

Bassmec · #9 05-02-2011, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cimchazz1

Well, my Chevelle, both bass guitars, 7 mini bikes, snow blower, lawn mower, stereo system, and wife are all over 40 years old, and they all seem to be working fine still??

Argh but how many of those things have you had plugged into
the output of a backline 600.
If BFM asks for measurements you better have them up front quick smart lad, because I would put money on the outcome if you closely take his advise.

edbass · #10 05-02-2011, 08:42 PM

I'm pretty sure those cabs originally came with JBL D130F's in the guitar version and D140F's in the bass version.
Which version probably has something to do with blocked ports too, but I don't really know much about the cabs personally. I'm pretty sure Dave West is still in business, I'll bet he could give you the scoop;

West Laboratories Guitar Amplifiers

cimchazz1 · #11 05-02-2011, 09:55 PM

Hey, just goofin back with BFM. I'm working out of town (in Traynorland) and can't measure my cab until I get home Thursday night, eh. I'll post the info then. But I do like old classic stuff I guess. I wish I had kept the old '60s SVT I had for that bottom, too. Oh, well, now I have the "better" more expensive modern amps, right? Just don't want to throw money away experimenting with speakers, thought I could get some good advice here maybe before making my Jeffersons blink. Thanks

cimchazz1 · #12 05-07-2011, 10:01 PM

Ok, Here's the meaurements of this twin 15 West Bass cab:
The inside of the cab is 30" x 30" x 12" deep and there are 2 port holes that are 3 1/4 dia. each. There are 2 more holes the same size that are blocked off. I,ve had 2 Vega EM158 speakers in the cab until recently when the tinel wires broke on both. I am trying to find out what speakers would work well in this cab, or what I need to do to the cab to use these Vegas again after I recone. I'm driving with a GK 1001RB 2. Thanks.

billfitzmaurice · #13 05-08-2011, 06:55 AM

Use the Eminence Legend CB15. The ports are too small, they need to be 4" diameter, and you need four of them or they will chuff. They also need ducts, 4" ID PVC pipe, nine inches long. Make sure the cab is internally braced panel to panel and lined with an inch to inch and a half of polyester batting or open cell urethane foam.
The Kappalite 3015 would be even better, but cost a lot more. speakerhardware.com is your best source for drivers.

cimchazz1 · #14 05-09-2011, 09:29 PM

Bill, thanks for the very specific instructions. I did contact Dave West and he thinks that cab did come with the JBL D140Fs, but he says he wouldn't use them again today, that's what was available at the time.
I went out and picked up a nice Musicman HD212 and HD210 to use until I get this cab back together. Those sound pretty good to me, actually. Know any good reputable reconers in the Detroit area?
Thanks.

lowendblues · #15 05-10-2011, 05:36 AM

I had a West 2-15" cab back in the day, heavy sucker. I loaded it with JBL E140's.

Serious thunder.

BassmanPaul · #16 05-10-2011, 02:32 PM

If the cones and the voice coils of the Vegas are still OK it should cost almost nothing for a speaker guy to replace the tinsel leads.

cimchazz1 · #17 05-11-2011, 06:41 PM

The cones look great and the voice coils don't rub. I soldered the wires on one speaker and it sounded fine for about 30 minutes, then the wires tore apart and sent all the power through the remaining speaker and tore those up as well.
Finding the right speaker guy may be more difficult than actually replacing the wires. You would think there would be many around the Detroit area, but like in anything else, there are probably only a few that really know their "stuff". And it probably costs the same to get a bad job done as it does a good. Anyone out in bassland know of a good resource within 20 miles of Detroit?