Volume?

Hopkins · #1 12-05-2010, 09:23 AM

I use a Carvin R1000 pushing an Acoustic b115 and a b410. It sounds pretty good at lower volume (punchy mids and nice lows), but when I try and get loud it seems to get muddy and the volume doesn't seem to increase.

Is the amp causing this or the cabs. I was being drowned out by a cheap crate combo amp that my guitar player uses as a backup.

Bass_Pounder · #2 12-05-2010, 10:09 AM

It's probably a combo of both.

If you are running 8 ohm cabs, then you are only running about 275 watts to each cab (IIRC).

Also, lower quality speakers run out of gas WAY before their rated thermal wattage limits. Giving them any more juice is a waste as it gets burned off as heat and compression.

Roadkill · #3 12-05-2010, 10:19 AM

Mixing different cabs like that - besides being so last century

- can cause them to cancel each other at certain frequencies and sound weird, especially at higher volumes where the driver's responses are altered by cone breakup and exceeding xmax. Sell one and get another that matches and the weirdies should go away

.

lomo · #4 12-05-2010, 10:24 AM

Not to rain on the parade, but if you can afford it I'd sell 'em both and just get a much better 410.
It could also be eq-if you are cranking lows and/or scooping mids you may be harder to hear. Try reducing lows and increasing mids.

Hopkins · #5 12-05-2010, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bass_Pounder

It's probably a combo of both.

If you are running 8 ohm cabs, then you are only running about 275 watts to each cab (IIRC).

Also, lower quality speakers run out of gas WAY before their rated thermal wattage limits. Giving them any more juice is a waste as it gets burned off as heat and compression.

Im running it bridged, in parrallel. So it should be making 1000w.

Hopkins · #6 12-05-2010, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lomo

Not to rain on the parade, but if you can afford it I'd sell 'em both and just get a much better 410.
It could also be eq-if you are cranking lows and/or scooping mids you may be harder to hear. Try reducing lows and increasing mids.

You arn't raining on my parade, This rig only has to last until I get my tax return. Im getting an Ampeg 810 and a SVT 7 pro.

In the mean time I guess Ill trade that 115 in for another 410

James Judson · #7 12-05-2010, 10:35 AM

That system should sound good the way it is. Cheap speakers??? Maybe. PA systems have been mixing and matching speakers forever and still do.

I'm wondering how your gain structure is. Usually an amp like that has two percieved volume controls. "Gain" (knob next to imput) adjusts input levels and can cause clipping (distortion) if turned to high. "Volume" (knob to the right of EQ) adjusts power amp volume and basically should be cranked. There could be many "gain" knobs but usually no more than two.

I would try adjusting the different "volume controls" paying closest attention to the gain knob. If that does not fix, then disconnect one cabinet then the other to see if a cab is the culprit.

Hopkins · #8 12-05-2010, 10:53 AM

The Gain on my amp is +-12, 0 being a 12 o'clock. I usually keep it at 0 or +1, The amp sounds pretty bad with the gain up. The volume seems to peak with the master set to 4 anything beyond that there is minimal gain in volume and it gets muddy sounding.
I usually set the EQ pretty much flat.

greenboy · #9 12-05-2010, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Judson

That system should sound good the way it is. Cheap speakers??? Maybe. PA systems have been mixing and matching speakers forever and still do.

There's nothing scattershot about the way PA is done, when done right. There is little casual mix-n-match of speakers.

Hopkins · #10 12-05-2010, 03:00 PM

So the only definitive suggestion would be to either match the cabs or replace them both?

Roadkill · #11 12-05-2010, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hopkins

So the only definitive suggestion would be to either match the cabs or replace them both?

You pretty much plan on askin' until you get the answer you want to hear?

Hopkins · #12 12-05-2010, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roadkill

You pretty much plan on askin' until you get the answer you want to hear?

Well I guess I'll get another 410.

Guess I'm trying not to dump to much cash into a temporary rig

Plstrns · #13 12-05-2010, 03:23 PM

It's all about the cabinets, replace them both.

The Ampeg and 7pro may be louder, but possibly not as much as you'd like. It will sound much better IMO.

Try a Berg NV610 instead, or a fEarful/ nearful stack. Then get the Ampeg or use a VT pedal in front of the Carvin if Ampeg tone is what you're after.

Hopkins · #14 12-05-2010, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plstrns

It's all about the cabinets, replace them both.

The Ampeg and 7pro may be louder, but possibly not as much as you'd like. It will sound much better IMO.

Try a Berg NV610 instead, or a fEarful/ nearful stack. Then get the Ampeg or use a VT pedal in front of the Carvin if Ampeg tone is what you're after.

Thanks Ill check those out.

Just to be clear, I can get loud enough with what I have for most occasions but it sounds pretty bad at high volume.

Plstrns · #15 12-05-2010, 03:43 PM

Correct.

99.9% of the time high volume level crappyness is the cabinets.

The Ampeg 810 will do your tone at volume better for sure, but don't don't look for much more.

Hopkins · #16 12-05-2010, 03:59 PM

Thanks alot, I know where to start now. Ill try and find a good deal on a cab before I get my new head. Hopefully before our next gig.

Sartori · #17 12-05-2010, 04:09 PM

You can probably find some pretty good stuff used that'll work better for you than the cabs you're using now.

JimmyM · #18 12-05-2010, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plstrns

Correct.

99.9% of the time high volume level crappyness is the cabinets.

The Ampeg 810 will do your tone at volume better for sure, but don't don't look for much more.

it should be able to go significantly louder than his current rig. first off, he's got the 115 as a limiting factor. second, i think the newer 810e's are unfairly slagged as not so good. to me they sound excellent and are very loud when needed.

james, as greenie said, the way pa's mix driver sizes is in no way related to the way bass players often mix driver sizes. in a good pa, every frequency band it's separated into will be represented by one size driver, and they will be properly crossed over to avoid overlap. you'll never see good pa guys do things like stick a full range 410 on top of a 115 and claim they're getting the best of both worlds.