Volume problem..

AL!EN BA$$ · #1 05-16-2011, 06:55 PM

I just got an all new rig and am having trouble getting a good volume for practice. I am playing with a metal band so I kno it's hard to keep up with a distorted guitar and crazy drumming, but I got an Acme Low B 4 and a Carvin DCM2000L, BBE BMAX and an ART power conditioner. I'm setting it up 4 Ohm's bridged so I get the full watts out of it. The Carvin is a replacement of the 1,000 watt version due to clipping and protect mode problem. Now, with the 2,000, it still clips at just about every note, doesnt go off on protect, but still isn't even that loud. I think another low B 4 would be the answer but idk if it's just the power amp or a combination of it all?!? I need help..

Bass_Pounder · #2 05-16-2011, 07:07 PM

Going from 1,000 watts to 2,000 watts is only an increase of 3db at best.

You need more speakers.............

seamonkey · #3 05-16-2011, 07:10 PM

You need more speakers, not more amp

AL!EN BA$$ · #4 05-16-2011, 07:11 PM

I thought so, anything else that would help? Does a compressor help with clipping? Or does it depend on where the compressor is in the line?

lbwdog · #5 05-16-2011, 07:14 PM

I've never owned any, but the Acme speakers are said to be some of the least "efficient" on the market. Very power hungry I hear.

Adding another cab will gain about 6db for you.

Stick_Player · #6 05-16-2011, 07:16 PM

2,000 watts and you can't hear yourself?

The Beatles played Shea Stadium with 120 watt amps each - 2 guitars, 1 bass.

AL!EN BA$$ · #7 05-16-2011, 07:23 PM

Right buts it's super aggressive death metal and no PA. So it's def a struggle!!

chucko58 · #8 05-16-2011, 07:23 PM

Acme cabs are none too efficient. I know, I have a pair of Low B-2s. But still... with 2KW, you should be bottoming the woofers before clipping the amp!

I would look for a more efficient cab - or two of them.

BrianVengeance · #9 05-16-2011, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AL!EN BA$$

I just got an all new rig and am having trouble getting a good volume for practice.

Tell everyone else to turn down. Brutal can be quieter for practice.

fdeck · #10 05-16-2011, 07:58 PM

Are you sure that you haven't toasted one or more of the drivers in the speaker?

AL!EN BA$$ · #11 05-16-2011, 08:03 PM

Yeah it sounds good just have to crank it to hear myself. Also we tune to F# for an 8 string guitar and I go down the octave. I got a .164 gauge for the low string but it's not a frequency issue just overall volume. I pretty much planned on getting another low b4. But I only went with Acme because of the low frequency. Is there more cabs for extended range basses out there??

BrianVengeance · #12 05-16-2011, 08:20 PM

Food for thought.... human hearing is roughly 20Hz-20kHz and your low F# is roughly 23Hz. Aside from having difficulty finding speakers / enclosures that can even reproduce frequencies that low, your octave / second harmonic is ~46Hz, which is still pushing the lower end of what most cabinets can reproduce. I doubt you're going to get much volume no matter what you're running.

I'd basically tell your guitarist with the 8 string to politely let you handle the low end, you're gonna be fighting him for frequency space anyways.

AL!EN BA$$ · #13 05-16-2011, 08:45 PM

Thanks a lot guys!!

will33 · #14 05-16-2011, 08:49 PM

IMO, double your cab count and halve your power. Dispersion, speakers at ear level, etc., et.,....

Also a low f#, .164, 34" scale,etc.....that's an extreme....need a "real" bass for that.

60bass · #15 05-16-2011, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AL!EN BA$$

I just got an all new rig and am having trouble getting a good volume for practice. I am playing with a metal band so I kno it's hard to keep up with a distorted guitar and crazy drumming, but I got an Acme Low B 4 and a Carvin DCM2000L, BBE BMAX and an ART power conditioner. I'm setting it up 4 Ohm's bridged so I get the full watts out of it. The Carvin is a replacement of the 1,000 watt version due to clipping and protect mode problem. Now, with the 2,000, it still clips at just about every note, doesnt go off on protect, but still isn't even that loud. I think another low B 4 would be the answer but idk if it's just the power amp or a combination of it all?!? I need help..

First thing to consider is how good are the guys in the band? Do you feel confident enough in their ability to basically have to scrap or add to the already excellent rig you have? In other words do you consider your fellow players as "pros"? Let's suppose you add another cab and bump up the watts? Is that going to start the dreaded "volume wars". Drummer starts playing even louder, guitarist starts cranking even more because they think the bass is drowning them out? Don't think it doesn't happen because it does, and frequently. I've been in that situation before and so have lots of other players.

I only ask these questions because I've been playing for many many years and one thing I've learned is that no matter what type of music you play, there is "ALWAYS" an alternative to blowing out the walls. If you need big volume and bottom there's a real simple way to achieve that - it's called the PA system. If your group doesn't have a good one, your money is better spent there (my opinion).

Neither you nor your fellow players need to play at massive volumes on stage. Save your ears and have great dynamics at the same time. I personally know a real good death metal guitarist who can take a 15 watt tube head through a 412 cab and get a killer low volume stage sound that sounds HUGE through a big PA. He's learned what I learned long ago and that lots of others still haven't learned. Namely, that when you play at a lower overall "controlled" stage volume, it opens up a whole new world musically. You have balance, dynamics, everybody hears each other on stage better, you don't have to kill your vocal cords screaming over crappy monitors, you're not constantly stressing about volume, and you get to have FUN playing.

One other thing to consider with your current rig is how you run your tone controls? If you're adding huge amounts of low end, that can kill you fast in the overall mix. Try messing around with the mids on your rig. Midrange is your best friend when it comes to having "cut through the mix power" at loud volumes.

BrianVengeance · #16 05-16-2011, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 60bass

Midrange is your best friend when it comes to having "cut through the mix power" at loud volumes.

This.

joelb79 · #17 05-16-2011, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbwdog

I've never owned any, but the Acme speakers are said to be some of the least "efficient" on the market. Very power hungry I hear.

Adding another cab will gain about 6db for you.

+1. go to a more efficient speaker, the B4 is made for frequency response not volume.

SlapHappy99 · #18 05-16-2011, 09:31 PM

I have an Acme B-2; it definitely trades off efficiency to get more low end. I use a 450W head and could probably use twice that.

Also, the drivers don't last forever. I had both of them replaced after about 8 years.

AL!EN BA$$ · #19 05-16-2011, 10:04 PM

Like I said what speaker could reproduce the F#? And the setup I have?

BrianVengeance · #20 05-16-2011, 11:01 PM

Again, the F# is on the cusp of human hearing range... how loud would you have blow a dog whistle for a human to hear it? What speaker would you use for the dog whistle?

The first frequency you're going to reliably hear on your open low string the second harmonic (the octave)

More food for thought... If you are playing an octave lower than your guitarist at 17 Hz, his low string is 34 Hz (your second harmonic)... or the first fret of the E string of a standard tuned bass. In other words, you don't much room to play lower than him, so best of luck!